Clone Wars: The Celebrities They Say Were Replaced

**Discussion begins at 6:40**

This week, we’re diving into one of the stranger corners of celebrity conspiracy theories: cloning.  From Selena Gomez to Jim Carrey, some claim that these stars have been replaced by replicas engineered in secret labs to take over their lives, their fame, and even their art.  Could Hollywood really be hiding a shadowy cloning program?  Is it science run amok?  A Hollywood PR nightmare?  Or is this just another viral rumor blown out of proportion?  Over the next hour, we’ll trace the origins of these theories, examine the so-called “evidence,” and separate fact from fiction in the wild world of celebrity clones.

Transcript

Hey, guys. Hey, guys. It's only 2SchemeQueens today.
Yeah, where's Colleen? Colleen is, where is Colleen? She's on a mission to find some missing bats.
Yeah. I don't know, she's been talking a lot about it, so. Yeah, so she decided to go on a little adventure, and she's looking for the bats.
Yeah, but she'll be back next week, and I hopefully will learn something from her. Maybe she'll come back like Batgirl. You think she'll be bit by a bat?
Isn't that what happens? And Batman, he gets bit by a bat? No, that's not.
It's not like Spider-Man. I'm more of a Marvel girl than a DC girl. It always goes back to Marvel.
If you go by the Christian Bale trilogy, you know, he went and he trained with the ninjas. So, and that is my canon for Batman. Do you now remember?
That's how he became the Dark Knight. The other day, I was talking to Kait. Kait likes to talk about how she is a night owl, and when I dug deeper into that, she was a night owl 15 years ago.
But now she is like kids and she is a normal parent. She also talks about how she is so hip on pop culture, and then I finally told her, I think you might be hip on like the 90s, 2000s pop culture.
And then she goes, well, to clarify, it's really nerd culture. Yeah, it's not pop culture. It's definitely nerd culture, only nerd culture.
Yeah. Keep the listens coming. Yeah.
And the comments coming. The hate's continuing to come in on Gabriella Rico-Himenez. Yes.
But that's fine. We've gotten some nice DMs though. Nice comments.
Some nice feedback and some emails that have been nice. We had someone who asked us about why we didn't address Trump in the Epstein files. Yeah.
I actually really appreciated the way she asked. It wasn't like accusatory. It was very complimentary of like, I really appreciate the research that you've done to the Epstein files.
Just curious, Trump had been mentioned a number of times in the Epstein files. How come we haven't addressed that? We can walk out our door and the whole world is divided, right?
And this is, we're just giggling together and talking about mysteries. So we made a choice. I think you've noticed like we haven't covered 9-11.
We haven't really talked about any president since Flint, maybe like in the last 30 years. Yeah. And we were not covering like Charlie Kirk.
No. That conspiracy is all over it. Like we don't want to cover divisive political topics.
The closest we came was COVID. Yeah. And it was only because, as you know, we work in the health care field.
And so we felt a little bit closer to that. And we really narrowed it down to like not the whole- Mass collimatic.
Right. Vaping, knowing that. I mean, that being said, so I guess what I was going to say, there's a lot of speculation.
Again, we have theories that he's been redacted inappropriately and that kind of thing. So I think if it comes out and we have like hard evidence, we'll certainly cover it.
But as far as like speculation right now, yeah, we didn't want to like contribute to the state of the world right now. Yeah. And we hope that this hour, Epstein is pretty like prominent right now.
It's very dark. We hope this hour that you spend with us is like a time that you guys can forget about the state of the world right now and kind of, find some joy in an otherwise kind of unstable. Climate here.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
We certainly were not trying to protect him in any way, but there's probably going to be future episodes on Epstein anyway. And again, if we have proof of anybody. Right.
We're going to talk about it. We'll talk about it. Yeah.
I thought it was a good question and some positive feedback, and I appreciated that. Yeah. So keep all the positive feedback coming.
And again, if you just want to log on and keep Peyton on Gabriella Rico-Himena's, do that too. We love that too. Today we are going to be more lightheaded though.
We are talking pop culture today. Yes. But before we get into it.
Is it time for our drink check? Drink check. So today we're talking about celebrities and cloning.
So in honor of that, yes, we are having the clone cocktail. The clone cocktail. Yes.
It really tastes sort of like a, I'm trying to think how to describe this, like an orange margarita spritzer. Yeah. You feel that?
I do. Do you taste the lime and the orange? I do.
And I love a citrus theme. Like it's a very good, it's a good vibe. It feels like we should be drinking this in May, not March.
You know, here it's snowing one day and it's 70 the next, and then it's snowing the next day. So I don't know. March comes in like a lion and out like a lamb.
That's what you keep telling me every time I'm like, I'm like, okay, but I was sitting outside having my coffee yesterday and today it's snowing. We're shoveling. So what the heck?
I don't like it. I don't like it. So the clone cocktail is, well, triple sec, tequila, some orange seltzer and some lime juice.
Yeah. And I like all of those things separately and together. Oh, we have a successful drink.
I think that Colleen would like this too, because Colleen is a tequila drinker. Yeah, Colleen is a suspicious tequila drinker, not in that she suspiciously drinks alone by herself, but she likes stirring things up.
Girl, I think her favorite targets are you and me. And so we'll go out and then all of a sudden, we got two glasses of wine in and she's like, should we do shots? Do we do a tequila shot?
It's also interesting because Colleen is not a big drinker. No. Like she really doesn't drink that much.
All of a sudden, I'm like, there's tequila shots happening right now. And just to be clear, I have not had tequila shots since 2017. Okay.
Prior to that tequila shot in 2017, I had not had one since 2012. Yeah. So I am not a tequila drinker, except in a margarita or in a clone cocktail.
Yeah. I will partake in with the tequila shot because I am easily influenced. Kait is so responsible, but after the second glass of wine, you can't commit to do anything.
So this week, we are diving into one of the stranger corners of celebrity conspiracy theories, cloning.
From Selena Gomez to Jim Carrey, some claim that stars have been replaced by replicas engineered in secret labs to take over their lives, their fame, and even their art. Could Hollywood really be hiding a shadowy cloning program?
Is it science run amok, a Hollywood PR nightmare, or is this just another viral rumor blown out of proportion?
In this episode, we'll trace the origins of these theories, examine the so-called evidence, and separate fact from fiction in the wild world of celebrity clones. Okay, Kait. Okay.
Well, here's my question before we start this again. Has there ever been a human that has been cloned? I'm so happy you asked.
Yeah. I did look into this. I was like, really, how hard would it be to clone a human?
It's pretty hard. Very hard. Yeah.
I found an article that talked about previous attempts to clone monkeys. So not even humans here, we're talking monkeys. It took 79 embryos and 42 surrogate mothers to clone two monkeys using fetal cells.
Attempts to make clone monkeys from adult cells required 181 embryos being implanted into 42 surrogate mothers, and two baby monkeys were born, but both died within hours.
So it's not as easy as just like popping out a clone, unless there is a secret program we don't know about. Right. But based on the science, what is known to the public, it would require, if this was done, a ton of people.
Again, because if we're talking about 42 surrogate mothers. Right. Again, sometimes the bigger these theories get, I'm like, that's a lot of people to keep a secret.
Right. And also, when we talk about cloning. It's not like you copy paste.
It's like you copy, it becomes a baby. Yes. You have to implant.
So you clone, you get this embryo, you put it in a womb, it gestates. So it's not like you have this full-grown human that just pops out, like a full-grown adult. Yes.
It's like you get a baby that was based off the DNA, from whatever. But as far as we know, never a human clone, because I think the ethics involved, nobody has, as far as we know, no human has been cloned. The closest we have is the monkeys.
And again, that was a lot of work and not super successful. Right. Did that answer your question?
Yeah. And I know that there was like a sheep, right? Oh, that was when we were children.
Yeah. Dolly the sheep? Yes.
That was big news when it happened. It was big news. Anyway, everyone, I feel like, talks about cloning, like it's, oh, it's so easy, but it's really not an easy process, especially in like multi-cell organisms, multi-organ organisms.
So now that Megan and I have really kind of already given opinions on whether or not we believe in cloning, not to be confused with, I believe that the Clone Wars happened in Star Wars, Megan. Okay. Okay.
9:30
Jim Carrey Clone Theory
So earlier this week, Jim Carrey made a rare public appearance. He accepted an award at the Cesar Film Awards, and he accepted the award. And then as he was walking out of the show, he was stopped by reporters.
And this is kind of the viral clip that went around. He's stopped by reporters, he's asked a question, he answers the question. And there's this like up close angle, video footage of his face, and it like did not look like him.
And this really got me, Megan. I was like, hold on a second, this is not Jim Carrey. I was freaked out.
I had nightmares because I didn't think that was Jim Carrey, which is, I think I just had, you know, much too much Epsi and social media before bed. Lexapro dreams. Yeah.
But there were people out there that were like, this isn't his face, this isn't the color of his eyes. This is definitely like, somebody put his voice through like an AI matching, and like they're like, this is not his voice.
And then the plot thickened because this like famous influencer, comedian, Alex Stone, posts on his Instagram, like a picture of a mask that looked very much like the face that quote Jim Carrey allegedly wore to the award shows.
And so everyone was like, oh, it was fake, this was all a joke. But then Jim Carrey's publicist came out and said, actually, no, Jim Carrey did attend the Cesar Awards, and he did accept his honorary Cesar Award.
Because didn't the award organizers come out and say, they also came out and they're like, that was him, and he spent like months practicing his French in order to accept that award or something. Yeah, that's kind of the story where we are.
So let's talk about why people are so interested in Jim Carrey, because Jim Carrey kind of has this convoluted history of like, being a little bit controversial, he has alluded to knowing about the Illuminati, knowing people in the Illuminati.
Kait, you sound like an idiot when you say the Illuminati. Yeah. Thanks for that feedback, listener.
Yes. Okay. In 2015, his longtime partner, girlfriend, overdosed, and he's been criticized because people have speculated that he was the one who introduced her to the drugs.
And she didn't, she only has some allegations in her diary against him or something.
I do remember, PJ to Jenny McCarthy, this is like in our, probably our teenage years, and Jenny McCarthy famously has the autistic sentence of she's been outspoken against, she sees an association between vaccines and autism.
And I remember when they were dating, he got really into that. And they were always like marching and protesting and speaking out about vaccines. So he kind of has this like history of like not being on the up with Hollywood, okay?
So when this video came out, it was like, oh my gosh, is he a clone? Did somebody in Hollywood replace him? Like you think he was just like, I'm done with Hollywood?
Well, he kind of has been like, I'm done with Hollywood. But then someone was like, we need to keep making money, so we'll just make a new Jim Carrey.
Yeah, I'm confused about why they would replace him other than the fact that they think he's revealed too much because this is really weird. On November 13th, 2014, he made two appearances on two talk shows.
The first was The Ellen DeGeneres Show, and the second was The Jimmy Kibble Live Show. This was all the way back in 2014. He shows up on Ellen DeGeneres, it's the afternoon, she took Oprah's spot.
They start talking and she starts complimenting him on what a great artist he is, and he's like, oh, well, I actually brought some paint with me. She's like, oh, what are you going to paint? He's like, I can paint on anything.
He looks around and he points to the ground and he goes, I could paint there. And he takes out some spray paint. He starts shaking up the can, and then he starts spray painting on the floor.
And Ellen is like, oh, let's go to break. And you can see her in the background and she like, doesn't look amused. She looks like this is really annoying.
What are you doing to my floor? And what he ends up doing is he's painting like these faces, and you can pretty much tell their faces. And then the bottom, he goes dumb and dumber too.
Like, he's promoting dumb and dumber too. But people have like long speculated that he was using it as a code in the Illuminati to like expose the Illuminati because the eyes of these two characters on the ground look like sixes.
And the Mark of the Beast, 666, Illuminati. Personally, watching the clip, it just looks like he literally is drawing cartoon characters. And people draw eyes like this all the time.
And everyone's like, oh, Ellen is upset. He's exposed. I think, I and I think, I think Ellen's just upset that he just spray painted.
He literally, I can't believe that he'd spray painted without approval. Approval. I mean, we could post this YouTube video to our social media platform.
And you guys can look at it too, but I don't see anything untoward about the characters. I can definitely see how the eyes look like sixes, but like there's two backward sixes and there's two forward sixes.
And I think people have just like, you know, kind of, this is a stretch. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. It looked like caricatures. Yeah.
Or he's just spray painting and like, Right. Yeah. It's not like he can detail, like do a detailed eye with a can of spray paint.
It's actually, the art's pretty good. So anyway, then later in the evening, he goes on to Jimmy Kimmel. And this is probably something that you have seen on social media because it's a viral clip.
And I'm not going to lie. If I, I have seen it on my Instagram and it is creepy, but let me tell you why it's creepy. Because when you see it on Instagram, there is a creepy music behind it.
Mysterious music, they cut to make it sound exactly like they want you to see what the, quote, author of the video is trying to make us see. But if you watch the whole clip of the Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Kimmel says, please welcome Jim Carrey.
And Jim Carrey comes out and he's doing this like triangle. Like he puts his hands together in like a right side up triangle and then he sticks his tongue through the triangle and he makes this weird face.
Jimmy Kimmel is kind of like in the background. He's looking at him and you can tell he's like confused. Like what's going on?
I mean, we know what the triangle means. Right, exactly. The triangle is the symbol of the Illuminati.
Talked about this. Right. Please go back and listen.
Well, you know. So Jimmy's kind of like looking at him like what's going on? And he sits down and Jimmy goes, is this some kind of gang sign?
And Jim Carrey is like, you know what it is. And Jimmy is like, no, no, I really don't know what it is. And then Jim Carrey starts naming off all these late night shows like, you know, Jimmy Fallon knows, David Letterman knows.
And then he goes off and he says, quote, and this is like the famous clip that you see of him that like everyone's like, oh, he was really exposing the things. So he goes, quote, I'm here tonight to blow the lid off of it, to be the whistle blower.
I'm sick and tired of the secrets and the lies. It is the secret symbol of the Illuminati and you're part of it. It needs to be set straight.
It's the symbol of the all mocking tongue and I'm sick of it. I want everyone to be in on the joke, man. You know what I mean?
Like for years now, talk show hosts, people on television, people in sitcoms have been hired by the government to throw you off track, to distract you, to make you laugh and stuff like that, that makes you happy and docile, so you don't know what's
really going on, you know? And they get out there in the woods in a circle naked, and they decide these things, and you know, and look at them, look at them trying to look at them, trying to come out. It's hilarious, hilarious.
And you know, I'm sick. Wait, hold on a second. You know what they're trying to do?
This thing is buzzing, hold on. They're trying to turn us into, you know, consumer drones of some sort. I just got to get this.
Yeah, yeah, listen, I'm in the middle of blowing off some... What happened? I'm sorry, Jimmy, I was temporarily interrupted by my iPhone 6.
So the first part of that quote is played all over social media.
And then the second part where he starts going, hold on, hold on, and he's reaching into his pocket, and he gets on his phone, and then he goes into this, like, his phone, and then he stops, and he puts his phone down, and he does, like, what...
Someone has called and said, stop talking. Stop talking. He's docile all of a sudden.
I'm sorry, I was temporarily interrupted by my iPhone 6. You can tell the whole thing is a bit, because then I start laughing. And I'm like, this...
So the first part of that quote where he's like, they just are just trying to distract you and make you laugh. Doesn't that sound like a conspiracy theorist? That sounds exactly like everybody thinks, oh, the government's all in control.
They're a secret organization that's making people laugh so that we really don't know what's going on in the world. And da, da, da, da, da. And so it starts off this, like, okay, maybe he really is onto something here.
And then it goes into, like, or on something, or we're on something. Yeah. He's actually, I think he's famously sober, but he is.
But anyway, it's just a classic, like, anybody can take a clip of anything and take it out of content, add some creepy music, put it on Instagram. Right. And then suddenly it is what it is.
Right. So it is weird that he, like, went on Ellen DeGeneres and Jimmy Kimmel at the same time, or maybe they're both shot in LA and this was when he was there at that time, you know?
So this is sort of like where I think people have, they're going back and they're saying, oh, Jim Carrey, he's been trying to expose the Illuminati for years and years and years, and they finally got him.
And because the FCM files are out now, they got Jim Carrey. Now he's got a clone. And what's going on with Jim Carrey?
And honestly, Megan, what I think happened is that Jim Carrey actually was at the award show. Accepted his award. Accepted his award.
And he's kind of famous for doing like bits. Yeah, because he's a comedian. These are bits.
Yeah. Right. So maybe he did have this influencer come out and do like pretend he was him walking across the street.
His publicist would then be telling the truth. He was there. He accepted the award.
And maybe Jim Carrey was like, you know what, go out, be my body double. I don't want to talk to the press. Because he has kind of been living.
In 2022, after he did Bruce Almighty, he was pretty serious about like retiring and kind of like leaving Hollywood and going and having a quiet life. And this is, that's kind of what he's been doing the past couple of years.
And everyone's like, Oh, where's Jim Carrey? He's just wants to live his life quiet after many years of being on the spotlight. He did, he's done Sonic, Sonic 2, but yeah, he's just kind of living his quiet life.
Yeah, I mean, he's been, this is, I think, unrelated. He has been outspoken about his mental health struggles in the past. And I feel like it's like Robin Williams.
I feel like it's very hard for all these comedians too, that just like always have to be on it and funny, and especially when they're struggling with their own issues. And so I see him just being like, I'm done.
And then yeah, maybe he's like, I appreciate this award. He practices French, he shows up, he makes a speech. But yes, I'm with you.
Maybe he's like, I don't want to do the rest of Hollywood and the rest of this. Yeah. So it was like a red carpet this guy was on.
He was like, it was kind of like a back alley, like he's going to his- Well, that's weird. Why would he be in a back alley?
I don't know. He was trying to escape from the press. I don't know.
But he's walking to his car. So I don't know. I think he's walking to his car after an award show.
There's like an entourage with him. So I kind of think if you look at the clip, his eyes do not match. One hundred percent of his eyes don't match.
Jim Carrey has brown eyes. This guy has like grayish. What were you able to see?
Jim Carrey doing his speech? Yes. And that is him.
Okay. And if you see- He clearly does not look the same to you as the person who later on is-
Yeah. There's no proof proof. This is my speculation.
Well, that's what this is. But to me, it looks like Jim Carrey had some plastic surgery. He had a facelift.
His cheeks are more pronounced. Yeah. He just looks like he had some plastic surgery and his hair is a little bit longer.
And he looks a little older on the red carpet. But for the awards. And if we haven't really seen him in a decade, then it's going to be shocking.
Right. So that's kind of where I am. I don't believe he was cloned.
No, I don't believe he was cloned. This happened how long ago? This happened in 2014.
So let's say, let's just walk this out. 2014, they're like, Jim Carrey is going to expose us. They clone him.
The kid would only be 12 years old. The other thing too I'm struggling with because just like make another star to make you money. Right.
Like you're going to invest all this money and energy into cloning Jim Carrey so that what? I mean, he's not even making movies, right? Or like, but say it was like, oh, because we want him to keep making movies.
Okay. Well, you could also just like go find someone else, invest in them and make them a star. Right.
Why would you need to have a clone of a 90s, a guy who's not really been big since like the 90s 2000? Right. I'm not sure I'm buying the-
No. But I like your theory that he just was like, how about a decoy for my exit to avoid the podcast?
And then that would explain his publicist saying he was there and he accepted the award, and the influencer posting a picture of like, what could be the mask of the face. That would explain both because what the publicist said is true.
He was there and he accepted the award. Period. And that was it.
No elaboration. Yeah. And Jim Carrey hasn't made a statement about it because he also is famously known for doing skits like he did on the Ellen DeGeneres show and Jimmy Kimmel.
Yeah. Also, Ellen DeGeneres was like, that's what she did. She was big for her pranks, which looking back were like not so funny.
And people talk about being like traumatized by these pranks she did. So, yeah, for him to go on and be like, again, I'm not even sure if that wasn't a bit. Yeah.
I think Ellen was in on his bit as I'm watching that clip. Yeah. OK.
But either way, yeah, I don't feel like that's convincing. Right. Either she was in on the bit or he was like getting her back for a prank.
And you're saying this, but he does. He does bits. Yeah.
So, OK. Yeah.
24:58
Selena Gomez Clone Theory
So anyway, no clone for Jim Carrey. That's our verdict. Yeah.
Well, the other cloning story that's been circulating around about the same time as this Jim Carrey story is, as I mentioned, Selena Gomez. And I got to tell you, this theory has everything. Oh.
According to this theory, Selena Gomez and Justin Bieber, who dated on and off for nearly a decade, Yes. allegedly had a secret child.
In order to protect the baby from a cannibalistic pedophile ring, Justin and Selena were told to choose, sacrifice Selena or sacrifice the baby. So obviously, Selena chose to sacrifice herself.
And we know this thanks in part to email exchanges from the Epstein files. What?
But if she really sacrificed herself in 2017, that would mean that the person that we see today, again, would have to be a clone, engineered, and placed to keep the public from asking questions. And only nine years old.
This is why Justin Bieber continues to mourn Selena Gomez and the end of their relationship. This explains why Selena Gomez has had such changes to her physical appearance, voice, and behavior. And the baby, what happened to this baby, you might ask?
Gabriella Rico-Himenas? No. Okay.
Justin gave it to Courtney Kardashian to raise, and that is who we all know as Rain Disick. But that one is the one that everyone thinks Justin Bieber's. There's a lot of kind of side theories on this.
Yeah. And I'm going to talk about that. But Rain Disick is her third child.
The first two were like the deliveries were filmed for the reality show. No video evidence of Rain being born, and they didn't even announce that Rain was born for like months after. Suspicious.
Suspicious. So the story had sort of been circulating, but we have a couple of things that just happened. The Epstein files just came out, and Selena Gomez just took a girl's trip to Cabo.
And those two things have led to a whole bunch more evidence that have got this back on social media, okay?
27:00
Debunking Selena Gomez
So again, we pretty much up front, before we even started, told you we don't believe this, right? This is so out there, I cannot even pretend. Clearly, I don't believe this.
I don't believe this. Okay. Yeah.
So let me go through piece by piece though here. So this pregnancy rumors with Selena Gomez, first of all goes back to mean people on the Internet. The energy it takes someone to sit down at a computer and write a snarky message.
Do you have other priorities in your life? But the number of people who sat down and just like commented on Selena Gomez's body, it's disgusting and it goes all the way back to 2012.
So in 2012, people were commenting that she appeared to have a little bit of a belly. Okay. So people were like, wait, is she pregnant?
And then Rain was born in 2014. So I'm like, that's two years later. That doesn't even add up.
But this is where this theory started like, oh, 2012, she's pregnant, the baby never came. Oh my gosh, I bet it was Rain and it was her kid. Yeah, incubation, that doesn't-
Time doesn't match up. Yeah.
In 2018, an article was published online claiming that Justin Bieber went to a Bible study class in LA and told churchgoers that he would, here's the quote, okay, never go back to the evil music industry until the pedophiles and monsters at the top
of the game are run out of town and everything is disinfected with bleach and sunshine. Yeah, I was about to say, we talked a little about Diddy and Bieber. Yeah.
He said, they tried to destroy me with alcohol, and when that didn't work, they tried with drugs, all different kinds. Then when that didn't work, they tried to destroy me with ambition.
I was interested at first, but when I realized what the price of admission is in that world, I had to quit. Selena and I were expecting. It was early days and we hadn't told anyone.
At the same time, I was being courted by some really powerful people, the most powerful people in Hollywood. He then tells us a Carrenda story about how he was brought into a room and he saw a baby that had been completely exsanguinated. Oh my god.
So blood out. And powerful people were sitting around drinking the baby's blood and that they offered him, they kept saying, drink some wine, which was the blood. And he declined to participate and then they threatened him.
They said they knew Selena was pregnant. They asked if I wanted my baby to end up like the one in the center of the room. This completely flipped me out and I lost my way for a long time.
I went off the rails. They murdered my unborn child. Me and Selena, we were driven apart by these people and the trauma.
So that is the story that was published in 2018. Okay. Well, I feel like it started okay and then it ended completely.
I was like, okay, I'm with you, I'm with you. Now I'm like, wait, was this a bad trip? Or did it even happen?
Right. So the article that came out, the website that published this article is famous for posting fake news. The article ended up being taken down.
The author used a pseudonym. He is famous for fake news. Okay.
Also, I'm like, this guy went to a Bible study that had apparently hundreds of people and told the story and the only source we have is this one news article.
And I'm with you, maybe he went to Bible study and he talked about Hollywood being an evil industry and whatever. I can believe that. And maybe they just elaborated and made up this whole thing about...
It was hyperbole. Yes. Yeah.
About the cannibalism and the baby and stuff. But I'm like, you think that he would go in front of hundreds of people and be like, Selena and I were expecting a child, but like never talk about it again. Right.
And if this was on big cover up, why would he be telling hundreds of people this again? And we have one source and it's this article. Right.
The story again, as I mentioned, began recirculating because we had the Epstein files. And so I went back, I used the web.io, thank Phoebe and Carol, and I searched for any documents referencing Selena. There are emails referencing Selena Dubin.
We talked about her in our Epstein episode, I think our part two. She was the daughter of Epstein's former girlfriend, Eva Dubin. And she and Epstein had a very inappropriate relationship, was like the vibe, like weird emails.
She was a minor. He was kind of obsessed with her. He left her all this money, but she declined it in the will.
I don't know why every time it's like disgusting. It's like I know Epstein is a disgust. And each time you're still like, ugh.
Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of emails between them.
And there are people in the files describing them as having a, quote, romantic relationship. So that Selena was referenced. And then another Selena was referenced, who we know was a model who signed to the MC2 model management.
She worked with Jean-Luc Brunel, who we touched on. He's really like the other big guy who went down. He was a French guy who founded a modeling agency, the MC2 model management, and Jeffrey Epstein financed the model agency.
And he actually was being prosecuted in Paris for trafficking related to Epstein, and he committed suicide in jail. Oh. So when we talk about like-
Did he actually commit suicide? No. But when we talk about the only people who've actually been tried, up until, you know, now we're talking about all these other people.
Right. But up until the files were dumped, we had, it was really like Colleen Epstein and Jean-Luc. You guys were like, that was it.
Because my initial assessment was like, okay, there's an email about Selena. Well, we know there are these two other Selenas that were in his life. Like that's probably who he was talking about.
Right. I was actually wrong because there is actually an email that references Selena Gomez full name. What?
Yes. So my mind was blown. But let me tell you about it.
On Friday, July 21st, 2017, at 11:51 AM, Epstein emailed a Lana with a redacted last name, but we know who Lana is, and wrote, sorry, you would have had fun. Heart emoji.
He has decided, and again, misspelled because I told you, it's just old people on a blackberry and no one knows anything. That would literally drive me insane. Every time I look at it, I'm like, punctuation, please?
And spelling. Act like you've been educated. Come on.
I mean, you're just perpetuating people being like, things are coded. I'm like, they're coded, or you guys are just lazy idiots. Yes.
Okay. He wrote, heart emoji, he has decided on Selena Gomez, period. The end.
That's the email. That's it. So that's why people think he has decided on Selena Gomez, meant they've decided Selena is going to sacrifice herself over the baby.
Exactly. I think that this would happen in an email exchange too. For sure.
Yeah. I mean, he says things like, I don't like email evidence of this discussion. Yeah.
But when we come to sacrificing Selena Gomez to save her child and avoid cannibalism, that's something that we would certainly email it out. Exactly.
So the redacted person is thought to be this model who claims she hardly knew Epstein, but emails indicate they did have a romantic relationship. But I was like, what was she a victim? But it seems like she had some agency in this.
She seems, we never know. I guess we could find out something else. But does not seem to be a victim, seems to be someone who was romantically linked to Epstein.
She talked a lot about how she was getting older and worried about her career. And we think he was trying to, because Epstein was buddies with Woody Allen, as we know. That he was trying to get her in a Woody Allen movie.
And then Woody Allen ended up casting Selena Gomez in the 2019 film A Rainy Day in New York. So she was cast in 2017, film released in 2019. 2017 here is when the email came out saying he has decided on Selena Gomez.
She's in this film and then she famously got a lot of backlash for being in a Woody Allen film and she ended up making a donation that was greater than her salary for this film to the Time's Up movement. Yeah.
So anyway, I think this email is being like, I'm really sorry you had fun with that movie, but he went with Selena instead. I agree. Period.
And we're done. Yes. No one is sacrificing themselves.
Yes. Yeah. In the Epstein emails to save baby rain.
Right. Okay. And then I think we're already caught up.
I don't understand the motivation on these people. Like to keep the money coming. I feel like you could just have the next Sabrina Carpenter and make her big and make money off her.
Or the next, you could find your next Disney star. Right. It doesn't have to be Selena Gomez.
Right. Because that feels like even more money and energy to genetically engineer this person.
And honestly, if we're really going to believe Selena is not Selena, or Jim Carrey is not Jim Carrey, I would buy more into a robot theory than a clone theory. Yeah. I agree.
I don't really think they're robots either, but I'm just like that feels like that would be easier to do. Yeah, but have you seen some of the AI robots with skin over them? It's creepy.
It is. It's creepy how real they look. Yes.
Yeah. That's what I mean. So you could just do that.
You would actually have control. Right. You wouldn't have to deal with how do we clone a grown human and not wait for them to gestate and everything.
And grow. Yeah. And then be relevant when nobody's relevant anymore.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So in 2013, because again, 2010 to 2018, she's with Justin Bieber.
2013, Bieber gets an angel tattoo, which was inspired by a 2012 L magazine photo shoot that Selena did. And so everyone was like, how romantic?
Except now people are like, was it romantic or was it a memorial tribute to the dead Selena who sacrificed herself? No. In 2021, at the VMAs, he sang an emotional rendition of Ghost.
Have you seen this? Everyone's like crying. All emotional.
And the song is about losing a loved one. So people are like, again, this was his secret tribute to the dead Selena. And why?
I'm questioning your honor circumstantial. Isn't that what they say? And then going back, that's like the six month turnaround between breaking up with Selena and marrying Haley.
People are like, they were together for almost a decade. How could he get over her so quickly? Unless it was like, she's dead, she's never coming back.
And he married Haley because he knew he could never be with Selena. But that's kind of unfair. We don't know what his relationship with is Haley.
And yeah, and they have a kid, Jack, which I like. They have a nice normal name. But he had to be like, he would only marry Haley if Selena was dead and was never coming back.
That's not cool. And then he apparently called Selena Gomez 23 times on his wedding day. We've heard this, right?
And so people, again, we're always like, he wasn't over Selena. And they're like, or maybe he just needed to hear her voice, you know? Maybe he was just, she was dead.
He was in mourning. And he just keep calling her phone to hear her voicemail. So this is what people have put together is like, see, this is all proof she's dead.
Proof proof. No. Yep.
So just going into how people are like, Selena Gomez looks different, she sounds different, she behaves different. I just want to talk about that. And I know that some people might say we're not qualified to discuss the health of a person.
Yeah. I would disagree. I would disagree, too.
I do think Selena looks different, but I think this can all be explained. First of all, she has been on the spotlights and she was like seven or whatever. She was on Barney, right?
She was a child. Right. We knew her, she was big when she was like 15, dating the Jonas brother and whatever.
Now she's in her 30s. So people are obviously going to look different. She's aged, she's a normal person, she's not going to look the same.
On top of that, she has had a lot of health issues.
So in October 2015, Selena told Billboard in an interview that she had been diagnosed with lupus in 2013 and had to undergo chemotherapy the following year, leading her to take a professional break and avoid the spotlight.
Kait, do you want to tell people what lupus is? Lupus is an autoimmune disease that can show up in different organs. Yeah.
So it depends on, you can have lupus in your heart, you can have lupus in your joints, it just depends. Yeah, your immune system attacks itself. That's what autoimmune diseases usually are, right?
You have this inappropriate immune response. And so the healthy tissue gets attacked, and then you have inflammation and organ damage. And so one of the subtypes, SLE, systemic lupus erythematosus, is the most common subtype.
That's what Selena has said she had. And so this, like you said, attacks specific organs. So you're talking about your skin, your joints, your kidneys, your heart, your lungs, your brain.
You can get fatigue, joint pain. You get that butterfly rash on the face is like the telltale side. Yeah.
These could all lead to organ failure. And it kind of comes in this like not really waxing, waning course, but you got flare ups, right? So she came out and she was like, I've had lupus.
I've been on this pretty much chemotherapy as a treatment. We're talking about the treatment in a moment for lupus. And then she also said she had mental health struggles.
And it seems like, you know, we all know she famously was diagnosed with bipolar. She's been very open about that.
And it sounds like it sort of all came around at the same time because she was like, my health issues and my diagnosis kind of exacerbated my anxiety. So ALTS was happening within a couple of years.
She spent two weeks at Meadow, it's like a rehab facility, in early 2014 for exhaustion and to cope with her diagnosis. And she said, and while I was there, I was getting chemotherapy.
Then in 2016, she entered a rehab center in Tennessee for depression and anxiety. She spent 90 days there. In 2017, she underwent a kidney transplant.
While she's going through all of this, Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez were first seen together in 2010. We know they had this on-off relationship until at least March of 2018.
They break up in March 2018, and in September, Justin and Haley Baldwin get married. It's a lot.
Selena Gomez then had some odd social media posts before stepping away and spending two weeks in a Connecticut clinic to focus on psychotherapy, meditation, nutrition, and Pilates.
In 2018, she was on social media being emotional about a low white blood cell count, and she was hospitalized. Her family saw her on live and took her to Cedars-Sinai, and she was hospitalized for depression.
So she definitely has had this history of inpatient treatment, and I think we have these two issues. So in February, I said, the other thing besides the Epstein files that brought this to light was Cabo. She went to Cabo on a girls trip in February.
One of the issues people brought up, again, was her weight. And I think actually she looked great. Yeah.
And I thought she had like an adorable little swimsuit that was like a one-piece strapless, but everyone was like, she's looking chubby. And again, this is what's wrong with our society. Yeah.
And the fact that you have, think of how productive you could be instead of going online and posting hateful things from behind a laptop. Right. Yeah.
Someone literally wrote, as a childless able-bodied celebrity, there's no excuse to not be in the best shape of your life. So. I'm sorry.
Able-bodied. Yeah. With all these medical issues, with an organ transplant and mental health issues.
You're already on all these immunosuppressive drugs. Which is what you're about to talk, that's the next thing. What all these drugs can do, why that can explain why she is like she is.
We have a lupus patient, we have an autoimmune issue, we have an organ transplant, we have mental health issues. I don't even think I got into the mental health drugs, but those obviously can cause a lot of weight fluctuations. How do we treat lupus?
Lupus is treated with anti-malarials which manage the skin and joint issues, immunosuppressants to turn off that overactive immune system, biologics to target specific immune system cells, NSAIDs for pain and inflammation, and then corticosteroids to
reduce inflammation and manage flare-ups. These are the first line agents we use. What are the side effects of all these steroids? What do you get with steroids, Kait?
Water retention, weight gain, increased appetite. Moon face, facial swelling.
You get all those things, increased appetite, weight gain, flu retention, thinning of skin, and then biologics, which I think is probably what she was on when she said I was on chemotherapy. Probably in biologics.
They don't have as many visible side effects, but they are suppressing your immune system. So you're going to have fatigue, you're going to be more prone to other things like viruses and illnesses.
With immunosuppressants, again, you're going to get tremors, which people were seeing in some of her videos, hair loss and thinning, although she's a lovely head of hair, acne, abdominal bloating. And so that's just to treat the lupus.
Then the lupus is bad enough, it attacks her kidney, she needs a kidney transplant. Once you have a kidney transplant, you are on chronic immunosuppression. Yes.
Kait, you probably know more about transplant than me. What kind of meds would she need to be on for her kidney transplant? Well, she would be on some tacrolimus, she would be on cellcept, and she would be on steroids.
Bingo. Triple drug therapy. Or tacro, which causes tremor, hair and skin issues.
Anti-proliferative agent like cellcept is going to cause swelling, abdominal bloating, poor appetite with nausea, vomiting, constipation, diarrhea, and a corticosteroid like prednisone, swelling, moon faced, increased appetite, skin changes.
She also has come out and said that she has small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Do you know about that? Yes, I do.
What is that? I love gut health. Certain types of bacteria grow in certain areas of your intestine.
And when you have SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, it means that some of the bacteria that's not supposed to be in the small intestine has overgrown in your small intestine. It kind of like re-colonizes from where it's supposed to be.
And you can have different types of symptoms, like have more digestive issues. You can... Bloating.
Bloating. This is people who have SIBO shouldn't take probiotics because it actually promotes more bacterial growth in the small intestine. Anyway, there's all these protocols that go on, but that's basically what SIBO is.
And I think it's still kind of being researched, correct? Yeah. So it causes bloating, abdominal pain, diarrhea, gas, and it can cause weight loss.
And oftentimes, this can be seen with chronic steroid use, or the presence of another illness like Crohn's or IBS. It also can be in the presence of people who have restricted for years, who have yo-yoed with their weight. I'm not surprised she has.
Yeah.
So pretty much all of that being said now, between all these things we've talked about, these medical issues she has, the mental health issues she has, the medication she would eat, she's definitely more prone to both swelling and maybe episodes of
like weight fluctuations. And particularly when we talk about abdominal bleeding and ranging of her face, which some people are pointing to, I think these are things that can be explained easily by this regimen.
And also, you know what, if she is having like weight gain from these meds and she uses like a GLP-1 to counteract those effects, I have no judgment about that.
So I think again, there's plenty of reasons for her to have weight fluctuations or to be trying to manage her weight gain. And again, as I said, it's been 15 years. She also looks like she's probably had some botox filler, a brow lift.
And she has had a rhinoplasty, we think, and then veneers. Everyone knows she had veneers, and I don't have opinions about veneers.
So people are like, if you look, she sort of has this overbite now, but it's probably more related to like veneers than from like a new jaw. And other people were mad about the Cabo photos because they said she was spending too much time tanning.
These are some of the people, the replies, right? It's actually wild how many people don't realize how serious the sun sensitivity is with lupus. It's not just about getting a bad sunburn.
UV rays can literally trigger a massive flare up or organ issues. Someone else says, I had a co-worker that had lupus and she told me they literally cannot be in the sun. They have to SPF always when they go outside.
And then the theory is like, you know, she came out after her third rehab stint, that's when she came out and said, oh, I have lupus. So people are like, oh, lupus, is lupus a cover up for drugs? I don't think so.
I think she's bought, she's open about her mental health this year. She's got medical conditions. And as far as like, who are you to judge about her, her photosensitivity.
So lupus does cause photosensitivity in about half of patients. Usually what it does is it flares up that butterfly rash we talked about. They're more prone to getting that rash.
Yes. And then again, a lot of these medications can cause photosensitivity. But we don't know what's happening.
Like when I'm looking at these photos, I'm like, she's under an umbrella. Like let the girl live. Maybe she popped out for 10 minutes and went back inside.
Maybe she's SPFing all the time. Maybe she's one of the 50% of people who doesn't have photosensitivity. Also, people with darker skin, you know, she's got melanin.
Yes, she's darker, yeah. People with darker skin are generally less susceptible to the phototoxic effects of these light-sensitizing drugs. So I take an antibiotic and I'm like sunburnt, right?
Like she, maybe she's just not one of those people. Or maybe she's one of those people and she's allowed to go sit outside under an umbrella for 10 minutes at a time. We don't know.
Let the girl live. Let it live. The final thing that people point to is her voice.
Her voice is different. So people argue that this could be the effect of her medications making her brain foggy. Some people are like she's high, some people are like she's just foggy.
I don't get that vibe from her. What I get from her is she does not articulate. She clenches her jaw when she talks.
And I feel like every character she plays, every interview, that's what she does. She doesn't really move her mouth. Well, if you think her voice is different, as we mentioned, lupus can target various tissues.
So you can have inflammation and damage that impacts the vocal cords and lungs, so it can kind of make you more hoarse. About 80%—I did not know this— 80% of lupus sufferers develop a lower raspy voice. Oh, interesting.
I didn't know this either. But I think, again, that it's like a jaw issue, that she's clenching her jaw. So that could be related to the veneers that we mentioned with the overbite.
Could be related to chronic jaw pain from the lupus and medications. Could be botox. Yeah.
I mean, she is on— she has reason to be foggy on this regiment, and she's on psych meds, that if people are like, she's talking slower, doesn't mean she's like on illicit drugs. Right. So that's the whole theory.
There are kind of some weird side theories. There is something about maybe Selena Gomez didn't sacrifice herself, but she died in 2017 when she had like kidney transplants. They replaced her by a replica.
Again, you think they just instantly popped out a replica? Another, yeah. She did have complications during their transplant.
They had to take vein from her leg to build like a new artery, cause she had like an artery rupture. But there's no other proof that she had any issues recovering. We have grinning pictures of her in the hospital.
And again, they just popped out a clone immediately because of her unexpected complications. Don't believe that. And then there's the side theory that you touched on, that Bieber and Kourtney Kardashian are Raine Disick's parents.
But they had a brief fling, lasted late 2015 to early 2016. Again, timing does not match up for the two of them to be parents to Raine. Timing does not match up for 2012, quote, you know, bloated Selena to be a parent of Raine.
Like none of these timelines match up. So don't believe that. There's also some people that like people are like, oh, Selena is Gina Davis, or like people listen to her voice, they think she sounds like a people.
I'm like, I don't know why she's doing that. So lots of side theories. Point is, I think Selena has had a lot of medical issues.
I think she appears to be in a great place right now. Yeah, me too. Me too, her and Benny live her life.
Yeah. And I think there's nothing I'm seeing in photos or interviews that tells me she is not exactly who she says. She is exactly who she says she is.
Yeah, I think people are just a little bit reaching. So we are not believing in any cloning happening. No, we aren't.
If you guys out there can think of a reason why Hollywood would, I mean, because you could say again, we're telling you about how cloning happens. Maybe there's some super secret, top secret science.
Someone has figured out how to instantly clone somebody as an adult. Right. I don't know.
Again, I would believe more so that they are replacing them with robots. But again, I don't get the motivation besides just being like, I just feel like these like tween stars, be like anyone's replaceable. Right.
We can make a star out of the next person. Right. I don't understand.
That seems easier and a better investment than. It's definitely Selena Gomez. She's still alive.
I agree. She just has all these health problems. And so stop talking about her body.
Right. Let her live. It's already bad enough that people have lupus out there and live their normal daily lives.
Could you imagine having lupus and being in the spotlight constantly? Good gracious. People need to get a life.
Get your own damn life. Get off the freaking internet. Go touch some grass.
Touch grass. Well, just a reminder, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at 3SchemeQueens. That's the number 3 SchemeQueens, all one word.
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If you want to check out our website, go to 3schemequeens.com and you can find links to our social media accounts, our Buzzsprout page, all of our episodes, additional content and our contact page where you can engage with us and share any updates on
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As always, if you choose not to financially support us, we appreciate the follows, the downloads, the listens, the likes. What should the people do, Kait? Yeah, I want you to take out your phone.
I want you to send it to three people who believe in clones. And then after you send it to them and their bubbles pop, you can scroll on down, leave us a five-star review, leave us a comment, a good one or a bad one. It doesn't matter.
You won't hurt our feelings. We'll just make jabs at you in future episodes. Yeah.
But you brought this upon yourself, so just know that, okay? You are not a victim in your circumstance. We don't believe in that here at 3SQ.
Interact with us on our social media platform. Send us an email. Let us know what else you want to hear about.
And yeah, Maggie? That's it. I think we'll see you next Tuesday.
See you next Tuesday.