RE-RELEASE: Montauk Project Complete Episode: The Inspiration for Stranger Things

**Discussion begins at 5:30**

In honor of Stranger Things Season 5, we’re cracking open the vault and re-releasing one of our earliest episodes.  Back in Episode 3, we dove into the conspiracy theory that inspired the Duffer Brothers’ hit series.  Be warned, listening to this episode might be a slippery slope.  This week you're listening to us discuss the secret portals under Montauk and time traveling chair experiments, and next you'll be delving into other episodes looking for more information on the Nazi gold, MK Ultra and government experiments, Titanic “truthers,” Hitler lore, the truth about the dolphins, the lunar landing, and the mysteries of Plum Island.  Proceed with caution and listen at your own risk.  We’re not responsible for any rabbit holes you fall into.

Transcript

Hey, it's Colleen.
Hi, it's Kait.
And it's Megan.
And we're the 3SchemeQueens.
Each Tuesday, we take you on a deep dive into one of our favorite conspiracy theories.
If you have a sense of humor and an open mind, come take this journey with us.
We'll tell you what we think, and we'll try to prove it to you. Is this thing on? Welcome back.
Hey, thanks for joining us.
Trying to make that intro a thing, if you can't tell.
Yeah, that's good, I like it.
How's everybody doing today?
Yeah, we're heading to a holiday party after we record.
Yeah, this is like the 27th annual.
27th annual Wine, Women and Debt.
Yeah, we love it.
My theme tonight is gonna be grandma pink.
Oh, mine's grandma on a cruise.
Oh, I am still undecided on my outfit, so we better get through this. But looking forward to a little wine and women.
Yes, love women.
And a little shopping.
Yeah, we're doing, this is just a super fun party that we have been going to for a while. Where just women sit around and drink wine and get silly. Yeah, it's like super fun.
And it's been going on longer since Colleen's been alive.
Literally, I'm 26.
Okay, guys, well, I just first want to give a little plug. I want to thank our very first supporter of the show, Haley Grooms.
I love you, Haley.
Yes, thank you so much.
I have known her since first grade.
How has she supported us, Megan?
She donated to buy us a cup of coffee. So for anyone out there who does want to support the show, the link is available on the Buzzsprout web page, or you can go to our Instagram bio. And of course, in all of our show notes, there's a link.
So feel free to click, make a donation if you feel so inclined, and we'll be sure to give you a shout out in a future episode. You can always follow us on Facebook, Instagram.
We have all of it now.
We've got it all now.
It took a lot of effort, but we have Facebook now.
Yeah. The username is the same for all of the accounts. The number 3 Scheme Queens, all one word.
So yeah, check us out there. And you can send us an email at 3schemequeens at gmail.com. Particularly if you have any conspiracies you're interested in hearing about, or you have any thoughts.
Or a love mail or hate mail.
Send it all to the gmail.
I would love to hear your thoughts, especially if you have like, no, this is not true or, oh my gosh, yes, I want you to keep going on that. Yeah.
Or if you're like an expert in one of these topics we're talking about.
We need your opinions.
An astrophysicist, for example, and you're like what they said was incorrect or correct.
We try to be correct.
We do. We do a lot of research. But feel free to reach out and educate us and tell us what you want to hear.
Yeah.
Educate us, please.
Also, yeah, I just want to shout out all of the people that have reached out to us on social media.
And it's been very exciting. It has. Via text message, any way that you have reached out to us.
We so appreciate you guys. Like, I can't believe it.
It's also been really interesting to see that, like, we're not the only people. Intrigued by, like, you can pretty much talk to anybody and they're like, oh, man, have you heard the one about?
And normally we have because we live on the Internet and we are.
We got a long list.
We crawl out of our caves to record this.
We appreciate it.
Yeah. Thank you so much. It's the best.
So is it time for our drink?
Drink check.
Oh, my God.
That's good.
That's my favorite part of the day.
Okay, Maggie, what you drinking?
You guys, I am drinking the old reliable Diet Coke.
The old reliable Diet Coke.
We almost have it in our laws.
Yeah. So far we've had a Diet Coke every episode.
Yeah, I know. Diet Coke sponsor us.
We love Diet Coke. We're Diet Coke addicts. And it's really slapping this morning.
How about you guys? What are you drinking?
I've got a nice little Compass Coffee here. Just regular coffee with a little oat milk, as Megan calls it, my boring coffee. But you know what?
I'd rather drink more coffee than milk. So that's my hot take for this morning. Coffee over lattes.
I feel targeted because I'm also drinking a Compass Latte that is in fact very milky.
But you guys, I don't know if everyone knows this, but espresso, like there's like two shots of espresso in that.
Yeah, I think I don't actually don't know how.
I think a regular is two to three.
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how Compass makes theirs, but I know Starbucks makes their medium drink with two shots. Two shots of espresso has less caffeine than actual coffee does.
I like the flavor of espresso very much.
I thought you like the flavor of milk.
That too.
But also, in case anyone's interested, in a different life, Kait was a barista.
So she is our coffee expert. And Kait, I don't think your coffee order is boring. I just think it's funny that whenever I'm like, anyone wants some coffee?
She's like, no, it's too expensive for my coffee and oat milk, which is like a maybe $2 drink. That's more ridiculous. Enjoy your drink.
You like what you like.
All right.
What are we talking about today, Maggie?
Yeah, we I think we're going to talk about a good one. We're going to talk about the Montauk Project.
The Montauk Project. All right. So this is what we need you to know about the Montauk Project.
Before we go into any of the details. If you have not seen Stranger Things, this is a spoiler alert. Everything that has happened from the beginning of Stranger Things to the end of the last season, which was the fourth season, is fair game.
So spoiler warning for those who have not seen Stranger Things. Also, if you have not seen Stranger Things, check it out on Netflix. We love it.
And honestly, what have you been doing? Because it's a cultural phenomenon.
I think if you haven't watched it, you probably have no intention of watching it. And so you can feel free to listen. But yeah, for sure, we're going to talk about some Stranger Things stuff.
So if you haven't, if you haven't, and you plan to come back and listen to us later. Okay, so I'll start with a little summary for you guys. In the picturesque vacation town of Montauk, New York is an abandoned air force base.
Camp Hero was built in 1942 and was used by the Air Force during World War II as a coastal defense system. Between 1971 and 1983, there are reports of the US government experimenting in an underground bunker.
These experiments included time travel, teleportation, mind control, alien contact, and even the staging of the quote fake Apollo moon landings.
Wait, what?
I know. Guys, moon landings are coming in a couple weeks, I think.
Oh my God.
I can't believe. I'm already digressing having gone through the summary. But what I'm learning as we do this is that like the conspiracy theories are all intertwined, right?
Like you believe one and you've got to believe like 10.
Yeah.
So anyway, back to the summary before we get to the discussion. So allegedly, the purpose of these Cold War experiments were to develop psychological warfare and were performed under US authority using Nazi gold recovered during World War II.
Nazi gold?
I'll tell you about the Nazi gold.
Okay. Like the Nazi gold rush.
I believe there was gold on a Nazi train that Americans found and they took it. And then I'll have to talk about funding for this and why we had to use the Nazi gold.
I love a train sequence in the movie.
This conspiracy theory originated based on reports of Al Bielek, who remember we talked about last week.
7:54
Al Bielek's Story
Good ol Al.
And Preston Nichols, who claim to be program directors of the Montauk experiments before having their memories wiped, as well as people who report having been experimented on.
Oh my god.
So guys, what are your initial thoughts before we discuss it?
Did it happen?
What the hell? Everything's connected.
Yeah, the whole moon landing, I'm like, wait a second.
I'm starting to feel like that meme from the Philadelphia, it's really, it's always sunshiny, wait, it's always sunny in Philadelphia.
Where he's like, yeah.
Oh my, like in front of the board.
We're going to post it on the ground.
Yeah, I'm like, what the?
I, like, in researching this topic before we, like when we decided we were going to talk about this, I had been, I've been to Montauk, but I can't remember, like, and we went to the state park, but I cannot remember the building with the, wait a
I was just going to say, can you purposely not remember?
Wait, because we, like, walked around there.
I went up into the, like, lighthouse.
Yeah.
Well, they even say, or you can't go up there anymore.
The banana antenna, is that what you're talking about?
The massive antenna.
Yeah.
They wanted to take the antenna down. But sailors and boaters were like, we can see the antenna better than we can see the lighthouse. So please keep it there.
So it's interesting that you're like, I saw the lighthouse. But where was this big antenna? I will post a picture on a reel for you guys.
Yeah.
But yeah, so it's just interesting that people are like, how can you miss it? And I'm like, I don't remember it. But also, is that intentional?
I was going to say, was it on purpose?
Oh, I've just looked up specifically the antenna. That thing's huge.
Yeah, it's huge. And it looks like a banana. That's what they call it.
The banana antenna.
That's crazy.
So are you thinking? So initial thoughts is like, I would like to hear more.
This happened.
Yeah, I. OK, Philadelphia Project. So Al, what's his name?
Bealik.
Yeah, Al Bealik decided that, you know, he came forward.
He's like, I have all these repressed memories because he watched a movie.
Yeah.
And he was like, I remember this boat and being a part of the Montauk Project.
Yeah.
So I feel like you kind of have to believe him, right?
Do you have to believe the Philly Experiment to believe this? Well, you know, I didn't really believe that.
Yeah, we're going to talk about it. I guess. Yeah, we'll get into it.
I'll refresh you guys on Al and Al's story. Yeah, I think I've kind of just given you a crazy story without any information. So it's kind of hard to have like an initial impression.
Right. But we'll talk about it and then see where we all fall. OK.
OK.
So Al Bealik, he watched the film, The Philadelphia Experiment, which was released in the 80s.
He saw this film, this like B-film and suddenly had deja vu, right? He had this deja vu and he was able to unlock all of his repressed memories of his involvement in both the Philadelphia Project and the Montauk Project.
Right.
And I'm going to need Kait's help because the most confusing part of this is the timelines. I mean, I had to like research and research. I was so confused by the timelines because there's a lot of time travel here.
I'm so glad we have an expert.
Yes, in Stranger Things.
And in timelines.
Yeah. Disney Plus.
Oh, right.
Loki.
Yeah.
It always goes back to Marvel.
Doctor Who, Loki. Yeah. Yeah.
Nerd alert.
Yeah.
Literally.
OK. So I have to like read this part to you about these timelines because it's so wild. OK.
So Al Bielak, after he watches this film, he says, Oh my gosh, I'm not even Al Bielak. My real name is Edward Cameron. I was born in 1916.
What?
What?
And me and my brother, Duncan Cameron, were both aboard the USS Eldridge. That's the boat from the Philadelphia experiment.
OK. And that was the experiments were allegedly like in the 40s, right? Because it was like during World War II.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes. World War II, where Einstein.
Yeah, I was alive. OK, guys, I just want to digress here and say that my husband called me out for not knowing that Einstein helped.
I had no clue.
Make the atomic bomb.
I knew that.
Yeah, that's like the whole point.
But then you didn't know that he was alive during World War II.
I didn't know when he did when he died.
I just want to be clear that maybe I just didn't know. One of us did know.
He lived a lot longer than you realize.
Yeah. But anyway, I had no idea that Albert Einstein created the, or was one of the creators in the atomic bomb. But now that makes sense.
Yeah.
He was involved. He wrote a letter saying we should do this because we want to be Germany. But I think that all came back to me that history after.
I got to be honest afterwards.
I promise I knew that.
You listened to a podcast and then your repressed memories came back.
Yes. But I did know he was alive. Bourbon Boy was not the only person to give us feedback.
To be clear, Bourbon Boy, he definitely knows his history and he calls me out on it all the time.
Bourbon Boy is too smart.
About certain things.
We got to knock him down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he comes up with this random name, Edward Cameron, that it's also very close to Edward Cullen.
Oh, I would like to point out that it's close to Kirk Cameron.
I was thinking Edward Cullen.
Who's also a conspiracy theorist.
I was believe was alive at that time and died from the Spanish flu.
Who directed Titanic? Who directed Titanic?
James Cameron.
James Cameron.
We got an episode on Titanic coming.
We got like a two-parter on Titanic coming.
So through theme through this is that Cameron is a very popular name in conspiracy theories. Yep. Yeah.
Okay.
So he and his brother were both on The Eldritch and they jumped overboard when the green, you know, we talked about the green mist and Kait gave us a very good scientific explanation of the animals fire.
So when this green mist started, they jumped overboard and then they traveled to a number of different places in a number of different years and ended up at Camp Hero in August 1983.
Okay. So they were born in the 19...
1919.
1919. So technically they should be like 64 when they're in 1983.
Yeah. 64. Okay.
But here's, I guess, again, where it gets very confusing. We're going to talk about the aging because the aging is weird.
I have a question. They jump in the water and the water triggers the...
Well, I think they're like, we're getting out of here. And so that when they leap off the boat, they get like time. They go through the time.
They get stuck in the mist.
The time.
Oh, time, space, continuum.
They enter the time, space, continuum, much like Loki and Thor and Thor Ragnarok. And then they have to like they get thrown out. And then they like have to they enter different places.
You guys know what I'm talking about? Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thor.
I don't even know who Loki is.
Yeah. Oh, my God.
I don't know who Loki is.
I know who Thor is. The guy with the hammer.
Yeah, the guy with the hammer.
Yeah. Loki's like his bad boy brother.
Oh, is Loki Tom Middleton? Yeah.
And we all know who that is.
Yeah. Yeah, we do.
Taylor Swift's ex.
Yeah. Getaway car.
So it's 1983 now.
We have no idea how old he really is.
And they've got well, we'll talk about the age again. Okay. So we were in Philadelphia.
We jumped off the boat. He says he went to a whole bunch of different places. He ends up in New York, Montauk, 1983, where he meets John von Neumann, who was a famous physicist and mathematician who did exist, but he died in 1957.
But he met him in the 80s.
In 1983.
So he sends him back to the USS Eldridge and he's like, you need to destroy everything and you need to end this project. She's like, go back to the USS Eldridge.
And when they time, time, and I'm going to, at the end, it's all going to come together about how they did this time travel. Okay. Then they time travel back to the USS Eldridge.
They end up right in the middle of the experiment that was happening. And so they're in the bowels of the ship. And so they're able to be protected from like all the people who are getting fused into the fuselage and all that.
They're fine because they're like in the bowels.
In the bowels of the pleasure, Dan.
They said they like transport and they instantly just start like destroying everything. They end and they end the experiment. That's how it ended up.
The ship reappears in Philadelphia and we're all, it's all over, right? So they ended this, the Philadelphia experiment allegedly.
So they traveled back in time to make sure that the boat doesn't end up in different places at different times.
Like I think they were like, I mean, there must have been in a different timeline as you explained to us, like negative repercussions of this whole Philadelphia experiment. And so they're like, you have to go back to stop it and save the world.
Yeah. We're going to have to draft a timeline and post that on.
Yeah, they go back and they destroy the ship.
And then after that, just before the USS Eldridge returned to its appropriate timeline and terminated this experiment, Duncan went back through a time portal and returned to Montauk in 1983 because he was, quote, programmed to do so.
What the hell?
So now we've got these brothers. We've got Al Bielak, born in 1919 on the USS Eldridge, and his brother Duncan is in Montauk and it's 1983.
Oh my God.
So then Duncan, once he gets to Montauk in 1983, he starts aging extremely rapidly. So for every hour that passes, he ages a year.
Holy crap. It's like Benjamin Button.
Tales of the Crypt.
There's this whole weird story that somebody who's a part of the Montauk Project, time traveled back to Duncan Cameron's dad. So we'll call him Duncan Cameron Senior. I don't know.
And said, your son, Duncan Cameron Junior.
Daddy Cameron? Can we call him Daddy Cameron?
Daddy Cameron, your son is going to die and we need you to have another son to save him. So Daddy Cameron, and again, I can't verify this. This was very hard to verify.
Daddy Cameron became Daddy Cameron.
So Daddy Cameron has another baby, Duncan Cameron Junior the second.
I don't know what you would call it if there's like two juniors.
We'll call him Double D.
One and the two.
Yeah, Double D. I like that. So we got Daddy Cams, we got Duncan Junior and Double D.
And Double D is born so that he can save Duncan Junior's life.
In the future.
In the future.
Yeah.
In the 80s.
This really feels like a sci-fi film.
Yeah, it does.
So Double D, he turns 12.
Okay.
And then these Montauk Project people.
Oh, God. They take him?
They transfer Duncan Junior, his mind and everything, like his essence, into the body of his 12-year-old brother, Double D. Oh, my God. And they say, you are now Duncan Cameron.
And wait, so Duncan Junior, DJ, dies?
His body dies.
Yeah, we don't know what happened to his body.
Oh, the plot is thick.
This is weird.
All right.
Okay, so now this 12-year-old Duncan takes over old Duncan's work working on the Montauk Project.
And we're in the 80s.
Yeah. Wow.
80s was a wild time.
The 80s really were.
And now, meanwhile, we have Edward still in his normal timeline on the boat, right? I'm sorry, we don't call it a boat when it's the Navy. It's when it's like a destroyer, the ship.
Yeah.
So I'm on a boat.
So he's on the ship.
And he has the opposite issue now because he's done all this time travel and got stuck in the-
He's been too young.
He's aging back.
Oh my God.
Benjamin Button. And so he becomes this toddler after going through all these age regression procedures. And he is sent to live with the Mr.
and Mrs. Bielak. And they call it, they name him Al, I guess.
Whoa.
And he grows up and becomes involved in the Montauk Experiments, which we'll talk about here.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
When was he Edward?
So Edward was born in 1916, did all the time traveling. And then he goes back to the like 40s to end the Philly experiment. And then he gets rapidly de-aged and adopted and renamed Al.
Al by his adoptive parents.
Let's revert back to how I decided that the Philadelphia Project could actually have happened.
You went on like a rant about timelines.
Okay, timelines.
There is one sacred timeline. We are on Earth 1.
Yes. You believe that there's Earth 34.
There could be an Earth of 34. We just don't know yet.
That's where this is happening. Right.
Okay. So I'm trying to figure out how to explain this with different timelines. Now, we could say that he was born in 1916.
Yeah, 1916. Okay, he somehow got transferred to Earth 33. So let's say he was born like Earth 44 in 1916.
Okay.
Right.
And then he got hooked up with the Montauk Projects on Earth 44. But maybe not in the 80s. Maybe it was a different time on Earth 44.
But how is he able to jump around?
Well, I think because as Megan is about to reveal, what were they doing in Montauk?
They were time traveling.
Duncan created the Montauk Chair, which you sit in. It makes your psychic abilities, it magnifies them, it makes it.
Yeah, so the whole idea is that like everyone, there's like this different dimension that you can enter.
Oh, because this is what happens in Stranger Things.
Right. There's a different dimension that you can enter with your mind.
Right.
And the idea was that there are infinite realities, infinite timelines, infinite Earths. And if you can enter this dimension, then you can access your like individual on a different dimension, a different Earth.
OK.
So you enter this, and that's what this chair was about.
I'm 100% following.
OK.
Did that make sense?
Yes.
OK. That's what it said.
That makes sense, but it just sounds like full of crack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It sounds absolutely OK. Guys, the reason why we are referencing Stranger Things is because Stranger Things is supposed to be based on this actual project.
I mean, it was actually called the original. Stranger Things was to be called Montauk.
Right.
And then there was like a lawsuit and they had to change it.
So they had. Yeah.
So it was going to be set in Montauk, New York on this base, but it had to get moved to Indiana.
Ohio. Fact check.
I believe it's Hawkins.
Hawkins, Indiana, you're right.
Hawkins, Indiana.
I thought it was Ohio.
Look who the nerd is now.
Who's the new nerd now?
So, so yeah, so Stranger Things was supposed to be called Montauk. And then there was a so and it was like, you know, that's why Stranger Things is set in the 80s. They're doing experiments on children.
We have, yeah, 11 the child.
And we'll talk about some some people who claimed to have been shot children that were experimented on again, because a lot of what we know is is like stories from these people.
So from Al, Al talks about Duncan, who it sounds like Al claimed he had to convince Duncan that like this, this is the story, which makes it even more like suspicious to me.
Right.
Right. Like you persuade him that you were long lost brothers from, you know, different timelines.
So Al, who's also Edward and Duncan interacted.
Yeah, they worked together in Timeline. They worked together in Montauk. Then obviously they were together on the ship in the Philips experiment.
But Al had to convince Duncan.
They went their separate ways.
Then when they met is like, yeah, they were like.
If a man came up to me and was like, you're my sibling, you've aged rapidly, transferred brains, like no way I would believe him.
Really? Because you said you were gullible.
Yeah, you're right.
You'd be like, hold on.
Did I? Yeah. I do often think things happened that didn't happen.
Can you buy me coffee and tell me more?
Let me just tell you, I briefly also mentioned Preston Nichols, and then we'll talk about the things that allegedly happened in this bunker underneath the base.
Who is this guy, Preston?
Preston Nichols, now he-
New character, like-
New character.
He self-published a book in 1992 called The Montauk Project Experiments in Time.
Can you buy this book?
You can buy this book. So he published this book after, like everyone's recovering these memories, they were all brainwashed, right? And then, so he recovered these memories of his time as a researcher for the Montauk Project.
He said that this chair that Kait was talking about, the Montauk chair, at one point his bosses told him to switch on the chair and leave it running until August 12, 1983, which is when the siblings ended up in their time travel from the Philadelphia
Oh, they come back to 83.
Yeah.
That's the same date.
And so the fact that they like left this running somehow is how they were able to create this like wormhole from 1943 to 1983.
So they kept the chair running?
They were like, just keep the chair running until August 12, 1983, which is like one.
But no one was in the chair. You just have to be outside of time. Like they, I think when we think of time, you have to think of it.
We think of it in a linear fashion because that's how we live it. But if you think about time travel, you are outside of time. So time doesn't exist in time travel, right?
Yes.
Yeah, because it's like you're like choosing where you want to be. You're not on. Yeah, you're right.
Much like Loki in the last season.
You got to go watch it on Disney Plus. Loki time travels, but it's called time hopping. Yes.
He can basically choose where he ends up in the timeline. But the question is, how did they get that ability?
Do you have to sit in the chair? Maybe the fact that the chair was on provided them that power.
Well, except that there was electricity on both ends because we had the electricity coming from the Philadelphia experiment and we had this electricity from the Montauk chair and that's how they had this wormhole.
That's apparently how the time travel initially happened to get these people to Montauk.
So they get zapped. So they zap from the boat to the boat.
The boat.
The ship. Navy people don't come through.
Navy people always get mad when you talk about the boats and they're like, it's a big boat, not a boat.
Yeah. It's a ship. Okay.
So they get zapped from the ship to the chair via the electricity, the electrical field.
The wormhole, I guess, or whatever, yes.
Okay.
And I guess that's how they get back. But then...
The green flash. But didn't they jump off the boat?
They like, I think they hit the water. I think they like left off.
They jumped off the boat.
They go through the green mist.
They get stuck in the mist. And the mist is where the drama happened.
That's the field. That's the electric field.
So maybe by being in the mist, it like sent them through the wormhole to the chair.
Right. And then they come back. And then I'm not really clear on, again, they said they think that Duncan was programmed to be like, once you have accomplished your mission of ending the Philadelphia experiment, you have to come back.
And so I'm not really sure how he got back, but it sounds like all of this was through this chair being on and the green mist.
Okay. So let's just say that from this moment, the chair in 1983 that has to stay on. Yes.
That is where they were before they went back to the ship. And then that's where they come back to.
Yes.
So they both, so maybe they left time in the 80s, and they went back to the 40s.
I gotta be like on another level to understand.
Colleen and I are just like staring at Kait with our mouths open, like trying to comprehend.
I need something stronger than coffee.
It's not making sense to me.
I hope it's making sense to our listeners.
I think we should recap. Al is not actually Al.
Al is Edward.
You know what? We're gonna call Al Al for the rest of this episode, because Al is what he goes by now. Al is what he is called in like every documentary and every special.
Al claims that he was actually born Edward, and his adoptive parents named him Al.
After he became Benjamin Button.
Yeah.
Okay. So Al Bielek was a part of the Philadelphia Experiment, but didn't realize he was part of the Philadelphia Experiment until he saw the movie in 1980.
Yes, in 1988 or something. Yes, 1980.
Okay. So 1988, he sees this film. He's like, I lived this.
Okay. So the whole idea and then he's like, they wiped my memories. And then all of a sudden, it's all rushing back to him.
He has this brother named Duncan, right? Duncan and him are a part of this team to save the world because in the Philadelphia Experiment, something goes extremely wrong. And they find out this in 1984 while they're a part of the Montauk Experiment.
So during the Montauk Experiment, they're like, you got to go back. Who's that guy that tells him to go back? Neumann.
Neumann's like, you got to go back. This something has happened that's terribly wrong. And we're going to put you in this chair in 84.
We're going to send you back to the 40s. You have to make sure that you don't get this boat to teleport. You don't, we don't want you to do that.
Okay. So that's what they're saying. So they go back to the ship and they somehow stop the ship from teleporting.
They save the day. There is still a green mist that we assume is from the chemical reaction from the electricity that they're trying to get the ship to be invisible to the radar. Not maybe to the naked eye, but invisible on the radar.
So when that happens, they jump out of the ship into the water, but they don't hit the water. They hit the green mist and they are teleported back to the chair in 1984 where Duncan has realized that this is all he has been created to do.
He starts aging.
He ages very quickly, like a minute a year, a year a minute. Year an hour. Becomes Tales of the Crypt guy and with wrinkles all over him and just skin falling off of his face.
And he somehow we go back in time to daddy Cameron. Yeah. And Duncan Jr.
tells daddy Cameron, pop out another. Yeah. We need we need a guy to save me.
Give me double D.
Yeah.
So so he does his business.
With the same lady.
Yeah. With the same.
For what we know.
OK. Yeah. Does business with the same lady.
And they create double D. Double D on this timeline turns 12. But Duncan Jr.
disappears.
Yes.
That's that's the end of the story of we know is Duncan Jr. Well, after after the other researchers at the Montauk Project do this like sole. You know, relocation into the 12 year old body.
Yes, we don't know what became of.
He was we know what happened to them.
I mean, we know it also is very likely when you describe it like this.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So good at this.
So the 12 year old double D is now Duncan Jr. but in a smaller body and then put into the 12 year old with like a brilliant mind. Right.
So he's a 12 year old, 12 year old with a very high IQ. OK, so he's lived his lived his whole life in a 12 year old, but he's a 12 year old. Do we know that if double D is part of the Montauk Project, I thought he just lives on.
He's part of the Montauk.
He becomes an experiment.
Oh, my.
OK.
OK, hold on.
I'm tracking here. So double actually at 12 years old, double D is an experiment. 80 is in 1984 at 12 years old.
Yes.
Yeah.
And he has like some wild psychic power.
He's 11.
He is 11.
Oh, my gosh. OK. Our or is he one?
Oh, is he Vecna? So 12 year old, we know what happens to Duncan Jr. He's disposed of because he's no longer needed because he was only programmed for what he was programmed for.
And so the government's like, I don't want to.
Yeah.
OK. So they dispose of him, allegedly.
Well, he does interact with Al.
Wait, but Al, I mean, they're disposing of the government disposed.
No, but I'm confused. Did they dispose of the old carcass or did they dispose of the soul of the 12 year old? 12 year old.
Oh, he is old man.
They combine. Yeah.
Is alive.
It's like a dementor's kiss.
Yeah.
He just is a soulless body.
No. So they're saying that the old Duncan and the new 12 year old Duncan have the same brain.
Yes.
So they're together.
No, I know.
So now there's a 12 year old.
The body of Duncan Jr. is like a body of someone who has received the dementor's kiss.
Yeah.
OK. So his soul is now sucked out. Megan has never read Harry Potter, so she has no idea.
I'm still staring at her blankly right now.
So then his body just like dies because it just gets so old.
I guess because Al was experimenting with Montauk, like Al experimented on his brother Duncan.
Well, they kind of like, yeah, well, if we agree that like.
The Montauk Project is real, if something is real, then like they could have wiped his memory.
That's so true.
And so in the 80, like this all happened in 84.
Yeah, in 88, his memories are like re. I don't know.
What is it? He gets his memories back.
Yeah, he gets his memories back. So I don't know, guys. I don't know.
Hold on.
Are we starting to believe in time travel?
I might.
I mean, I like it as I'm listening to you talk about it. I'm like, this part at least is just too wild to believe. But Kait's like, wait, as I talk it through, I believe it.
Wait, what I said makes way more sense.
You did clarify it a lot.
However, I don't know if I think these people time travel.
I will say, Megan sent us a video to watch before this, and there was two guys in it that were recounting stories.
Are you referring to the Christopher Garitano documentary?
Yes, I am that guy.
Yeah, Montauk Chronicles. Yeah. So I'm going to go over the other people that were in that really quickly here.
It's not going to be quite as in-depth as this other summary. But, I'm kind of with you. So we'll talk about the documentary in a minute, too.
From now on out, we're calling 12-year-old Double D Vekna.
Okay.
We can just call him Final Duncan, because it's the final form of Duncan.
The Final D.
Perfect.
Let's talk about Preston Nichols now. In that documentary, you're referencing Al Bealick, Preston Nichols, and some other people.
So this is another new character.
Yeah.
So Preston Nichols, he self-published a book in 1992 called The Montauk Project Experiments in Time.
Wait, those are the guys that were in the documentary?
Al Bealick was the guy in Florida.
Of course he's in Florida.
Yeah, of course.
So again, watch the documentary that's in the show notes.
Yeah. So let me tell you about Preston Nichols. He's in the documentary that Kait just referenced, and he self-published a book in 1992 called The Montauk Project Experiments in Time.
He published this book after he, quote, recovered his memories of his time as a researcher on the project.
Another one.
Yes. So far these people we've met are not people being experimented on, except sort of Duncan we'll talk about, but people who are running the experiment.
Oh my God.
I just want everyone to know that I just suppressed a DJ Khaled.
Another one.
I just had to do it.
But then you didn't suppress it. Preston Nichols, he alleges that in the 50s, researchers from the Philadelphia Experiment wanted to continue their research.
36:36
Funding and Aliens
They weren't done and they wanted to focus on the psychological effects of magnetic field and see if they could use these tools to drive the enemy insane.
So they were like, you know what, we're fighting the Germans and we could flip a switch and they could all start hallucinating and going crazy. And so that was their goal.
They wanted to experiment so they could try to do like psychological warfare with these people. His story is like, you know, they actually, these researchers, these higher ups, went to Congress in the 50s. Oh, okay.
I know the timelines again are very confusing, Kait, now we're back like pre, okay, into the 50s and they were like, we want to do this research and see if we can develop some psychological weapons.
And Congress is like, no, we're not approving that budget. That's dangerous. No.
So what do they do? They go over Congress's head to the Department of Defense. And Department of Defense is like, yeah, let's do it.
But first of all, since Congress already said, no, we got to make this top secret classified, we can't talk about it. And number two, how are we going to pay for this? How do they pay for it, Kait?
$10 billion in gold stolen from the Nazis.
Oh my God.
We're full circle.
How did the Nazis get gold?
Wait, so this is like Fight Club? Yeah, number one rule. Yeah, don't talk about Fight Club.
Yeah, well, don't talk about Montauk.
Top secret things, don't talk about them.
Yeah, Fight Club, Brad Pitt.
Wow, so I didn't know Nazis had gold.
When did the Nazis get gold?
How did Nazis get gold?
Wait, was this trained in America?
We have too many questions for Megan.
She's like, guys, I scoured the internet for details about this alleged project that is so confusing.
I'm also, this whole time travel, all this stuff is like giving me Bucky from Captain America Vibes, and I'm just like-
Were they frozen on ice?
That's what I'm saying.
I'm getting re-inspired to read Bucky stories. I love Bucky.
I love Bucky too.
I know.
I love Steve Rogers more.
I don't.
That's okay, we can disagree on that.
Yeah, that's fine.
I have no clue what you guys are talking about, but I just want you to know that-
Captain America?
Yeah, what the hell?
When I type in Nazi gold, the first thing that pops up is a Wikipedia article that talks about, they looted the victims.
Okay. The money from the victims of the Holocaust?
Like people who went to concentration camps.
Yeah, the victims of the Holocaust.
Yeah.
So that's how they got there.
So they got all this gold. So they had, it says...
So this is how they funded their projects?
Yeah. Well, in 1998, Swiss Commission estimated that the Swiss National Bank held $440 million, which would have been the equivalent of $8 billion in Nazi gold.
Whoa.
Over half of which they think was stolen from people. Wait.
Okay. Let's pump the brakes here for one second. We are trying to fund a project in the 50s, in the Cold War, using Nazi gold, who we just beat in the World War II.
Yes.
This is so backwards.
Oh, I get it.
Yeah.
There's a lot of conspiracy theories about where remaining gold is. But I will say that it says that the...
Isn't there a conspiracy theory out there that Hitler survived?
Yeah, and he's in Brazil.
I don't know if they came across this deserted... I don't know what the story was, but there was some...
There was a train.
There was a train, but I don't know, was the train running? Were there Germans on it, Nazis on it? Was it just an abandoned train?
Was there a fight?
Okay, so unclear how we got the gold.
Bucky was on a train.
Oh, Bucky was on a train.
Hold on.
Oh my God.
Are you saying that Bucky, Captain America was real, and Bucky, and Bucky? Anyways, okay, so we get money, and now they're funding this experiment.
We have talked about these people, and we haven't even really talked about what were they doing on these experiments. So these experiments that allegedly happened, and so now we've done a lot of different timelines, okay?
40:55
Montauk Experiments
But the Montauk Project, once people did all finish their time traveling and ended up wherever they ended up, occurred 70s and 80s, okay?
I'm falling.
In the 70s, early 80s, the following experiments were allegedly happening...
Oh my God...
. in the bunker underneath the antenna of Montauk. Teleportation, I think we've talked about that a little bit.
Time travel, and we talked about the...
Yeah, we got that one.
Port hole. There was a...
There was initially what they called an unstable port hole in time that was created, and people time traveled, and they time traveled so frequently that it solidified, and then it became known as the Time Tunnel, and people could just travel to
I'm just getting flashes of Stranger Things.
Yeah, that big hole.
Yeah, where is Will?
Not our friend, Will, who probably is not listening to this podcast at all. That big hole, and all those scientists are just there monitoring it, and it goes into the upside down.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Weird. Yeah, it's giving me vibes.
What else did they do?
Alien contact.
Oh, hell yeah.
Here's what I love. I actually did have to send Colleen this, because in the documentary, Preston Nichols is talking about how they had alien contact.
Oh, my God.
And they exchanged technology with the aliens.
No way. Yes.
No way.
No way.
And that's how we got all the technology for this. And that I love because Kait and Colleen often argue that things couldn't have happened because we didn't have that kind of technology in that era or whatever.
This is how we got the technology.
And we'll talk about that when you hear the moon landing.
Didn't Michael say this? Michael, our Uber driver?
Our Uber driver.
Oh, my God. We haven't referenced Michael this one. He did say this.
Yes.
Oh, my God.
It's Michael.
I think Michael might be way smarter than we gave him credit for.
Everything he talked about on that Uber ride has been proven.
Like, allegedly, have we had proof proof?
No, no proof proof.
No proof proof.
Yeah, Preston Nichols says in this clip, like, if you look at time, we had like slow advancements in time and improvements in time.
And then suddenly, all of a sudden over like the last 50 years, it was just like the exponential increase in like the technology. And he's like, that doesn't just happen in a normal society.
What happened is we met the aliens, the aliens and us, like we exchanged technology. And that's why we had this like rapid technological advancement.
Wait a second. When was the internet created in the 90s?
The 80s.
Was it the 80s? 83.
Shut the fuck up. Oh my God.
Holy moly.
I'm dead. I'm actually dead. Shut up.
Guys, this is real.
This is real. This is real.
We met aliens through the Montauk experiment and had internet because of it.
What would our life have been like then if we had never met the aliens? If no one had ever encountered the aliens, we would.
Oh my God. The podcast wouldn't be around.
To reference Twilight again, the author of Twilight wrote a second book called The Host. Have you read it?
I have not read it.
Where it's like aliens are like put into our brains.
Yeah, like the animorphs. Did you read that?
Or whatever. And just like Duncan, like how they morphed his brain. You know what I mean?
Maybe. Maybe Stephanie Meyers knows what's up.
Maybe. Shout out Stephanie Meyers.
Yeah. She's crazy. So anyways, we have the internet.
What else?
Then they did a lot of mind control experiments and they conducted these on homeless people and runaway boys. So is this giving you Stranger Things vibes?
Yes.
So they underwent pretty much they were like they would physically and mentally torture them until they broke.
Yeah.
And then their mind was like pliable. That's so sad.
It is really sad.
Reprogram them.
So they were like, and it was, here's the thing too, I don't want to get into the spoiler, but I'm kind of with what Kait was implying that I have thoughts about about this and like what could be true, what couldn't be true, which we'll talk about.
But I think regardless of what you think, I just don't really have a lot of faith in these people that were interviewed, like Preston Nichols and Al Bialik. They all sound very sketchy, sketchy. But like, and they keep giving different numbers.
It was like at one point, they say that like, oh, there were like 100,000 kids killed and people are like, okay, 100,000 kids just like died and nobody like could achieve it. But then somewhere else they're like, oh yeah, like, you know, 10,000 kids.
So it's like, they don't even have...
10,000 is still a lot.
Oh, it is. But I mean, I was like, there's no consistency. Right.
Yeah. Okay. So anyway, mental mind control experiments.
Apparently, the AIDS virus was created.
And the Internet.
And the Internet.
And the Internet.
Oh.
You guys, it's literally in my notes that the Internet was created. And she forgot. Because someone else figured this out before Kait figured this out.
This is crazy.
Oh my God.
I could... Hold on. I'm kind of believing this.
A little bit, a little bit.
I'm believing it.
I feel like there are kernels of truth.
I think I got you, gave you guys like the most absurd stuff. And now we're going to get to the stuff where we're like, wait a minute.
Like there were definitely experiments and there was definitely shit going on. And like, yeah, this is feeling real.
And then also, as we mentioned, this is where they staged the, quote, fake Apollo moon landing.
It was definitely fake.
We're going to talk about the moon landing.
Yeah, we have thoughts.
We have very different thoughts. We'll get into that in another episode. OK.
OK.
And so also like, that's the one thing that I'm like, it's kind of like, it's kind of like Colleen with everything else.
But it's kind of like Colleen with the muzzle dog like in the Princess Diana episode, like that, the thing that's an obscure fact. But what about the muzzled dog?
Why was it muzzled?
It was in a car anyway.
Maybe he didn't want it to bark.
Maybe he was being trained or see, guys.
There was more to the dog.
Maybe he didn't want to bark because they didn't want anything to like tie him back.
Exactly.
Like nobody wanted to know.
Well, why wouldn't he have just left the dog at home then?
OK, Megan.
Send us your thoughts about the dog. Anyways, back to Montauk. What else did they do?
So we talked about that Montauk chair and it's just talking about that they would like do a consciousness amplification in this Montauk chair.
And then they also, this is also a throwback to Stranger Things. Actually, the very first experiment they had them all doing, these kids they were studying, was the quote seeing eye.
And so these kids or again, Duncan, who in this 12 year old body was a genius, but he had all of these like psychic abilities. So he was one they loved to put in the Montauk chair.
But the seeing eye, so you would hold something like some hair or an object that belonged to somebody. And then you could instantly see what they could see, hear what they could hear, smell what they could smell.
Is this not what Eleven could do?
I have chills.
Eleven could do this, right? In Stranger Things.
Yeah.
He also reported, Preston Nichols, that they housed a lot of different living creatures from other planets and dimensions.
Again, he publishes this book in 1992, and then all of a sudden, these people start coming forward being like, oh yeah, kind of like that movie about the Philadelphics. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Wait, I was there. I'm having memories come back.
They all got warped, wiped.
Obliviated.
Obliviated. Is obliviated a word?
It's a Harry Potter reference. I can't believe we have gone through this many without you being like, what does that mean?
No, I think she means obliterated, but I'm just not going to correct her.
Is obliviate a word or is that made up specifically for Harry Potter?
It's obliviate is the spell that you use to wipe someone's memory in Harry Potter.
I treat it like a real word.
Me too. Oblivated. It sounds like a real word.
It is a real word.
I believe it.
Yeah.
Anyways, we digress.
We digress. These people who came forward, the most famous and outspoken is Stuart Swerdlow. He was also in the Montauk Chronicles documentary that you saw, and he was the one who was the first two were like, Oh, I helped run it.
And this guy was like, I was experimented on. What do you think of him, Kait?
Very strange individual.
Yeah. Passworthy? No, I would say not very reliable.
I think it sounds like he has...
Might be mentally ill.
Yeah.
He was like trying to get sort of a...
But I mean, if they did have their... Like they went through all the psychological torture, maybe they would be mentally ill.
I would be.
Yeah.
He talks a lot about what he experienced, but then he'll say like, like on Real Housewives, they'll always have big fights because they'll be like, I can't even tell you what Kait said. It was so bad. It was so bad.
But I can't even tell you. And it causes the drama for the entire season. And then in the end, you find out what Kait said, and it was like not a big deal.
It's like those shoes are blue.
Yeah.
Yeah. So that happens all the time in Bravo. So I feel like he just could be...
He kept being like, the things they did to me, they were so terrible. I can't even tell you. And not to minimize like people's trauma, but also like if you can't...
I'm just supposed to believe that all these things happen that are so terrible, you can't even tell us what they were. I was a little suspicious.
So he's kind of the most famous one, but I think he tells a story and he's looking for a little attention. Yeah. Yeah.
And then there's also a number of other people who have come forward. There was like a park employee who had hypnosis. Now he thinks he was one of these, quote, lost boys.
There was someone in the documentary who, like, was all concealed, right? He didn't want people to know about him. Yeah.
So there have been a number of people who have come out. And then, so kind of to wrap up the story and then we can discuss it. Let's talk about how the project ended.
Well, I cannot wait for this.
They know something I don't know.
Yeah.
And actually, I'm going to pull up some pictures. Oh, God. Okay.
So the Cameron brothers, so this would be Al Bealick and Duncan. Right. Double D.
Double D. Decided that this experiment had gone too far. We're crossing lines.
Finally. Finally, we're crossing some lines.
Finally, they believe that.
Right. So Duncan was in the Montauk chair.
Oh, God.
And they had this code ready. So someone whispers to him while he's in the Montauk chair, which is amplifying his consciousness. Oh, God.
And they say, the time is now.
Oh, my God.
And he instantly imagines in his brain a hairy beast.
Oh, my God.
And because he's in this, like, amplification chair and he's got these psychic abilities, it's real.
No.
So they unlock this.
No.
The Demi-Gorgon.
Yes, this hairy beast.
Oh, my God.
And he's running around the base causing destruction.
No.
They called him Junior.
Of course they did.
Oh, that's creepy.
That's really disturbing.
Wait, is it Vecna or is it the Demi-Gorgon?
Oh, I forgot that there's two beasts.
And then there's also the Demi-Dogs.
Right. Yeah.
OK. But Vecna is spoilers for season four.
Vecna is the... Vecna would be if Duncan became a monster, right?
Yes.
But this must be the Demi-Gorgon.
So Junior wreaks havoc on this base. Oh, not unlike the Demi-Gorgon in Stranger Things.
Right.
But there's kind of different stories. So there's apparently all these people who saw this monster on base have like different descriptions of what he looked like, which is OK, fine.
There also is some local lore that maybe this monster is still alive and it's being kept under Camp Hero.
Should we make a day trip to Montauk?
I mean, I love Montauk. I will go back.
Apparently, they filled in all these tunnels and everything.
Yeah, that's that's weird. They filled, they cemented, they cemented the tunnels underground.
Juniors down there, you think?
Yeah, well, I know, like these documentarians are like, I can hear something.
Juniors down there.
Well, so yeah, they're like, there's definitely like levels below the ground.
Right.
And I think there was like a elevator shaft or something.
Yeah.
And so they're like, we look down, we know there's something down there and we could they could hear things.
We have to go.
But also, they were like trespassing on this government property.
Because it says like, you can't, there's like signs that say no trespass. I mean, it is suspicious.
I want to go there. I want to go there.
Also, if it is like not being used anymore, why don't they just knock it down?
Maybe they're still feeding Junior.
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah.
Why were the tunnels filled in?
So that Junior can't get out.
Yeah, but is that suspicious?
Don't be suspicious.
That's weird.
Don't be suspicious.
That's suspicious.
Yeah, that's weird.
So there are some people who think that this monster is still alive, right? But there was also this is real. This has been proven.
Oh, my God.
We got proof proof on this.
Oh, we got proof proof. We got real proof. This animal washed ashore in Montauk in 2008.
This dead carcass that looks like this.
We got a picture.
I'm going to show you guys and we'll post it to social media.
I'm frightened. Oh, my God.
Okay, you guys, it looks like, oh, my gosh, it looks like a pig, sort of, that is an manatee's body, but also somewhat like a bear.
But also sort of like a pig.
I feel like it's small.
I feel like it's pig size. The mouth is like there's so many teeth, it's wide open.
This creature washed ashore in 2008. Now, they did say-
The thing is horrifying.
That they thought this could be an animal from a nearby Plum Island, and they wanted these cryptozoologists to come and study this carcass, but wouldn't you know it? The body disappeared before anyone could study it.
Of course it did.
Oh, my God.
And then another one also, similar, washed up in 2020.
Guys, this is a demidog.
Oh, that makes so much more sense. Because here's actually my impression.
Yeah, it does look small.
As I think that if you look at some of the pictures, I think it could just be like a dog or something that has partially, it was like in the water, it was swollen, and it started to decompose.
But the mouth.
But I think the mouth could be like partial decomposition.
Yeah, but how did the body just disappear? And then there's no studies on it?
I'm going to decide to believe that it's a monster.
Yeah, it's a demidog.
Because if that's a dog, that's sad.
But I think it looks small. No, but I mean, it looks, I don't think it's like the 8 feet or 10 feet that some people were describing the monster as. It looks small.
But so if you're saying it's like the demidog.
It's like the demidog.
I can get on board with that. And the rest of them are just making a ruckus underneath the...
Or they just got burned or something.
Oh my gosh, hold on. The ship.
Stop.
Wait.
Philadelphia is not far from New York. The dog was on the ship.
Why would they have a dog on the ship?
And maybe it got time warped.
The demidog got sucked back into time?
Oh, like followed them?
Yes. Maybe that's what they were trying to stop. Maybe they were like, this is a problem what the demidogs have got now.
This is crazy.
Guys, I kind of believe this shit.
I do too. I do have a couple. I have questions.
Okay, I have a couple of theories that people have offered up as like alternative theories. And I'll tell you what I think and then I want to hear what you guys think.
Okay, so there was a local Paul Fagan who spent 14 years studying the space, and he thinks that there was probably like a nuclear reactor that was buried as part of like the Cold War.
Oh, so it's like...
And so that's why they had to fill it in with concrete and that's...
Radiation.
Yeah, it's a likely story. That's why they're so like secretive.
I don't like this Paul Fagan guy. He doesn't like to make believe.
But he thinks that maybe this story was all like a distractor from like the scary shit that was actually happening.
Okay.
It will be noted, they've had multiple surveys done and there's definitely something below the base, but they have no blueprints or mapping.
Of course they don't.
Yeah, of course they don't.
So there's that.
It was destroyed.
And I also saw there was I guess another theory.
But I want to go back to the monster for one second.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Okay. So Double D who's in the chair, Final D.
Yeah, Final D.
Final D is in the chair. Yeah. And he summons this monster.
And the monster goes in and he like destroys everything and every one. Does this not sound like Vecna in season four?
Yeah, I can see it.
When like L is like the only one that survives.
I can see it. Yeah.
And she's remembering the only one. She's remembering like that horror scene. Oh my God.
That's why I'm like, is Double D Vecna? Is Final D Vecna? And he's and and he destroyed everything except, I don't know, people got out apparently because there are some eyewitnesses who say that they were there.
And allegedly, allegedly. And the upside down is the time warp, the time capsule that people can walk through the time tunnel, the time tunnel. Yeah.
Oh, and then they cemented it shut and they cemented it shut.
Whoa.
Except for the elevator shaft.
So hold on a second.
Is Double D, the one who's still down there?
Is that who you hear?
Is it Vekna?
Because we don't know how Duncan finally died, right?
Yeah, he just suddenly is not talked about anymore.
I mean, feel free to feel free to comment or e-mails and let us know what happened to Duncan.
But what if this monster wasn't actually summoned? It was just him and he created himself because that's what happened. That's what happened.
He becomes the monster.
This is hurting my brain.
Actually, I guess he gets sucked into the upside down and then he becomes the monster.
So it sounds like, are you guys leaning towards parts of this may be true?
Yeah, there are kernels of truth.
Okay.
I believe that the government could conduct experiments.
The government has conducted experiments. What?
No, wait a second.
No, there's proof.
There's proof proof.
There's proof proof?
When did this happen? Yeah. Okay.
59:16
Government Projects
So we now know that there have been declassified projects on paranormal phenomenon, like multiple times over, you know, multiple eras by our US government. So in 1978, Project Stargate occurred at Fort Meade in Maryland.
DMV, they focused on this, like, remote viewing and I guess, like, the the seeing eye type of experiments. And they denied it happened. Eventually, they declassified it and everyone's like, no, it definitely happened.
Right.
There's no question the government's like, yep, we did it.
It's bad.
So 1995, they ended the study and they declassified it.
And now you can go online and read about it, Project Stargate. But the bigger one, MK Ultra.
Sounds like a beer I like.
Yeah, McUltra.
Yeah.
Shout out to the Berkey fam. We all like that beer.
Water. Yeah.
I was about to say, it's not my beer of choice. Locale, I guess, but water.
Yeah.
CIA program from 1953 to 1973. And it researched methods to manipulate brain function. So they did a lot of different things.
They gave like psychoactive drugs, electroshock, sensory deprivation, hypnosis, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, torture.
This is awful.
And they used, this is like, again, dark, dark area of our history, right? They used like mental patients, prisoners, drug addicts, prostitutes.
Oh my God, that's sad.
And it is really sad. And they had no like medical or scientific oversight. In fact, one Frank Olson, he committed suicide.
And so anyway, I guess it's just like, this is now been, it was declassified in 2001. People have come out and apologized. This definitely happened.
We have like veterans who have come out and been like, yeah, I was studied in these studies. But the point is, it's like the government, this is what I'm seeing about all these conspiracy theories.
Like you can't say the government would never do this because they straight up, I'm like, yeah, we did it. Oops. That was embarrassing.
Right.
Right.
So I think it's like not outside the realm of possibility that there were like, yeah, they were definitely doing, yeah, doing studies. I don't know if I trust all these people that were like that they're reliable time travel and all that jazz.
Yeah.
But like I could believe that there was studies happening.
Oh yeah.
And I do want to just throw the MK Ultra before, before Kait gives us her perspective. I just want to throw this back in and come full circle with Stranger Things that Eleven's mom, Ultra like experiment.
Oh my gosh.
While she was pregnant with Eleven and that's how Eleven got her.
Her psychic abilities.
Oh my gosh.
So this is crazy. And we know too about like all these drug, like the dolphin experiments. When they were giving the dolphins the LSD and trying to teach them how to speak English.
No.
Oh no.
You guys have heard about this, right?
Yes.
But we could do an episode on it.
I mean, there's no conspiracy. The lady's like, yeah, it definitely happened. Did they speak?
No. They paid this lady moved to the Bahamas or something.
Yeah.
And lived with a dolphin.
Yeah.
So there's like, you can look at pictures online. We'll post them. It looks kind of like a little apartment with water.
And she just like lived with it.
Yeah.
But it gets real inappropriate because the dolphin couldn't, he was like a hormonal adolescent and couldn't focus on his studies. And so she had to get him to focus by helping him out.
That woman had sexual relations with that dolphin.
Oh my God.
No. She's like, I relieved him and then I could get him to focus for an hour. And she would, but they would give him LSD because people really thought that like they could teach these dolphins to talk and spoiler alert, dolphins don't talk, right?
Allegedly.
So I'm just saying that they have better.
They should know better that it's about the gorillas.
Yeah. You got to do it on the gorillas. Planet of the Apes.
Yeah.
So but I think for sure they're like, we have again, all this evidence where they've been like, we've done these studies, we've given drugs to people unknowingly, unknowingly to animals we've experimented on.
They're not above the experiment.
Yeah. They definitely though have like targeted at-risk populations, like perhaps young children or homeless people. So I don't believe the time travel aspect of it.
MK Ultra, I'm sorry, sounds a lot like Montauk.
Do we think that it just got transferred somewhere else? Because the government put a stop to it, right? They were like, this is not-
1973, and then you think someone was like, I'm not done.
Exactly.
Someone was like, you know what? I'm going to keep doing this.
Or maybe they declassified aspects of it to get our attention away.
Well, it wasn't declassified until recently. Well, like 2001, but experiment-headed in the 70s.
So maybe they declassified it because people were getting so suspicious about what was happening.
Oh, in Montauk.
And then they're like, yeah, we did it. And then, but-
Kind of like the aliens?
Yeah, and only admitted to some of it.
If we tell you this part, a little bit of the truth, then you'll ignore the rest of it? Yeah, I was about to say, kind of like when they told us that aliens were real, and no one cared.
Yeah, zero people.
I care.
I care. Hold on. But like, you weren't like, oh, yeah, because I knew that aliens are, I already believed in aliens.
Yeah, I mean, I think too, one of the other theories that I saw online too was like, okay, if they were doing some of these kind of like on pages, I was like, if something was happening here, but maybe not to the extent that these people are
claiming, like maybe they were drugging these people, giving them LSD or whatever. And so now they're having, they're like hallucinating. That this is some of the stuff.
Oh yeah, you mess with people's minds, you get not good historians.
Yeah, and these- And you start hallucinating, and your memories are not accurate.
So I think-
Oh, your memories are repressed? Is that what you're saying? Oh.
I think my opinion in the end is that 100% they were experimenting on things, 100% they were doing suspicious activity, like experimenting on people's minds, animals, whatever.
But I don't, like you said, I don't think time travel was one of them. I think these historians, the people who have come forward to talk about this, Al, whatever, he was just tortured on. You know what I mean?
There's no way. There's no way.
Okay, going back to the Philadelphia experiment, I'm going to give an option in which this could happen.
All right, here we go. Earth 44.
I would like to say that this is the option I'm presenting, that if people could buy into it, this is the option. But I would also like to go on record and say, I don't necessarily believe this one.
She's just going to be devil's advocate and try.
I am going to say that, yes, the government has done something sketchy at Montauk.
Yes, it could be mind control that they were working on because that was a big thing during, like this was all coming out, like, you know, after World War II, the Cold War.
They're trying to develop tactics because we were in such a state that it was very like, touch and go, or are we going to go to war with the USSR? So they were trying to come up with tactics to use in a military fashion.
So they were trying to come up with mind control, you know, whatever, which is not whatever, but they were doing that. I believe that they were doing that. And that's what they're saying with MK Ultra, is that, yeah, we were conducting experiments.
But let's talk about, there are too many things that happened in Montauk that it's just the filling of the tunnels, the huge antenna for what? They won't even say what the Montauk building was used for. It was built.
There's too much unknown.
There's way too much unknown.
And then they just, like, it just gets shut down.
Why?
Like, there is something that happened there. Maybe there is still a Vecna-like creature down in there. I don't know.
Maybe that is really where we got the internet in 1983.
I believe that.
We had some sort of extraterrestrial ET moment in Montauk. Sure, we could go with that. Maybe we met the aliens and they're the ones that landed on the moon.
And that's the footage we used. So, that's where I stand as far as like, I think something happened. I think there's a lot of questions.
I think that it is very gray. And I think it's intentionally gray. They want us to not know.
It's the banana antenna. Come on, keeping us on our toes. They were definitely trying to do something with that antenna.
Well, I thought the purpose of the antenna was like, if we were to be attacked, like that's a port city, right?
That's like the coast. And so, that was going to be one of our, like, Eastern defense systems. And so, I thought that that was kind of the purpose of the antenna was like to kind of be radar and like alert us if...
But it's an Air Force base.
Why wouldn't it be a Navy base? That's a ship.
I did say port because I meant it was coastal, is what I'm trying to say.
Also, why were the tunnels...
Don't be reasonable, Megan.
Yeah. Yeah, Megan. Come on.
Why were the tunnels, like, filled in? That's just weird.
There's too much.
That's weird.
There's too much.
Okay, let's give you option B, in which Al Bielek was booted out of the Montauk Project, wasn't he?
They ended it.
Right.
Yes, with this whole plan about the time is now.
Oh, right.
I forgot already.
That was all of them conspiring to end this because they were like, it's gone too far.
Okay. So he...
That's where we thought last week that maybe by ending it, he pissed someone off.
Yes.
And then somehow that he gets thrown back in time.
Yeah. So he pissed somebody off, maybe Double D.
Final D.
Final D. Vecna. And booted him to another timeline, booted him to a different dimension.
That's the only way I believe that anything like that happened.
I don't know, man. This whole thing is like...
Megan, what do you believe?
Yeah. Like I said, I think something happened. I definitely don't believe Stuart Swirdlow.
He was the guy in the documentary. He was telling his story.
Oh, yes. So it's been all big.
Don't believe... So I don't know if I believe these individuals we have here.
Like they were the ones that were getting like...
Experimented on.
Experimented on, but maybe not like, you know, they're putting them in a chair and trying to reach other dimensions. Yeah. Now.
Maybe they're like giving them some LSD when they're like 10 years old.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's so sad.
Making them try to crush diet coke cans with their mind.
If I got free diet coke out of it, I probably would try.
Yeah, sure.
I'll do that.
Yeah.
Free lifetime supply and a lot of trouble.
You tell me all I got to do is a little LSD for diet coke.
A lifetime supply of diet coke and trauma. Already got it.
I really want diet coke to sponsor us, guys.
Yeah. This one was fun.
This one, yeah. We'll defer to you guys.
What do you guys think? This one is wild.
I'm having a hard time with this.
It's very complicated. And I feel like really the timelines make it like my head really hurts.
Yeah. I just think that like no wonder the brothers heard about this conspiracy and was like, let's make this a show.
It's good material.
It's good material.
As Colleen often says, this story you're telling is like good TV.
Yeah. This is good.
Yeah. This is good.
I mean, I've watched the show, so I love the show.
I can't wait for season five. Yeah.
The final season.
Yeah, the final season.
Maybe they'll fill the tunnel.
The final D. I would like to pose that in a future podcast episode, we can cover season five of the.
Yeah.
On our Stranger Things.
When we're famous enough and you guys pay us to do extras, we'll do this for you.
When we have a Patreon or subscription.
But yeah, I guess that's the Montauk experiment.
Yeah. The Montauk experiment.
So what's our poll going to be for our listeners, Kait? What are their options?
Okay. A, Montauk Project never happened. There was never anything shady.
They just used it at some sort of defense place to monitor for planes and boats.
Like some kind of military base during a war. I roll. Okay.
It was after a war.
It was during the Cold War.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
B.
B, something shady happened in Montauk that we don't know about.
Shippy shady.
Shippy shady. Yeah. C, secret option C, the Philadelphia experiment worked and all of these time-hopping places happened.
Well. Al Bielek was on Earth 44 where the Montauk experiment actually happened and got booted off the timeline by Double D Vekna, who was actually just creating havoc on Earth 44.
That's why his repressed memories come back because he's like, wait, this happened to me, but it wasn't on the same timeline.
So when we post that poll, we're going to have to shorten those options down at Panky Cape.
Secret Absence C.
Can I insert option D? Yeah.
D's nuts.
Yeah. Okay, children.
Shout out to Bourbon Boy.
All right. Thanks for joining us. I think that's it.
Anything else you guys have?
No, I got nothing.
All right.
Thanks, guys.
Thanks for joining us, Foilheads, and we look forward to seeing you next Tuesday on 3SchemeQueens.