Jack the Ripper: The Conspiracy Theories

**Discussion beings at 5:10**

In the fall of 1888, London was a booming metropolis under economic strain due to the massive influx up immigrants and refugees.  Whitechapel, an area in the East End, was an overcrowded neighborhood with poor employment and dire economic conditions.  As a result, many women were forced into casual prostitution to survive - and it was many of these women who fell victim to an unknown serial killer lurking in the dark, shadowed alleyways.  The killer was named "Jack the Ripper", either a self proclaimed nickname or one coined by the press, but beyond that alias the killer's identity remains a secret even 130 years later.  For more than a century, whispers have persisted that the Ripper murders were not the work of a lone madman, but part of a deeper conspiracy.  Theories have pointed to royal cover-ups, Masonic plots, and a police force accused of burying the truth.  This week, as we approach the end of True Crimeber - we are discussing one last British mystery - the story of Jack the Ripper and the conspiracy theories related to his…or her… potential identity.  

Transcript

Welcome back, 3SchemeQueens.
3, again, SchemeQueens.
We are wrapping up True Crimeber.
We got this week.
Next week?
We got a little light-hearted one next week, and that will be the end of True Crimeber.
Yeah, that's kind of sad.
I really like the name.
I feel like there's something I wanted to talk about.
Oh, our reel.
Let's talk about how excited our reel is popping off, you guys, if you follow us on Instagram.
Me and Megan are excited.
It's the first time we've ever been viral, which I think Megan, past Megan would say, that's sad, but for right now, it's happy.
Megan and Kait posted a reel, it's without me.
And they're going viral.
We really have to thank Diet Coke and Taylor Swift.
Right, honestly.
I'm more concerned about the fact that all these people are following us now off of this Taylor Swift Diet Coke reel.
And have no idea what we're really about.
Yeah, and I feel like they're going to be like, what's with all this conspiracy stuff that's on my feed now?
Well, then maybe they're going to be like, wait, hold on, I need to check this out.
More exciting is that Kait has had three separate random people reach out to her to be like, dude, you just popped up on my feed.
Yeah.
Also, to be fair, I was on my couch and I texted them and I go, oh my gosh, I have this idea for the real picture.
To be clear, so I sent this idea and it involved all three of us.
And then we were all at work and we're wrapping up the workday.
And I'm like, hey, Colleen, you come down so we can do this 30 second reel.
And she goes, I have told you guys 500 times.
No, the best part about this is literally two days prior, I had sent them a message, so excited.
Hey, I have PTO on Friday.
Does anybody want to hang out?
Oh, but we were both working.
Yeah.
Do you know what else happened that day?
What?
We ran into a patient, Kait and I ran into a patient outside the hospital, and he was wearing an octopus shirt.
Yes.
Talk about it with him.
Kait and I left our interaction, we could not have been creepier, more nerdy.
Kait's like, do you like octopi?
He's like, I don't know.
Meanwhile, his shirt is just a massive octopi.
It was probably his grandchild who gifted it.
It was like, they're pretty cool.
And we were like, I was like, they're more than cool.
Do you know?
And then you said something.
I said, I'm kind of scared because they think that when we die out, octopi could be the next civilization to take over.
And Kait's like, but they can't, Megan, because they die after they lay eggs.
I can picture this in real time.
And like the two of you just looking back at one of those and he's like, yeah.
And then when we left the interaction, Kait and her are both like, that was weird.
Like, we were weird.
So is it time for our drink check?
Yeah, drink check.
We have, I kind of warned you last week, we have another London, another story set in London.
London.
And so I was gonna, we were just gonna have some tea for our drink check.
That's what I was thinking.
And then I Googled like other London drinks.
And did you know that an espresso martini was invented in London?
In London.
London.
No way.
So I reached out to our friend and supporter of the show who makes a fabulous espresso martini.
It was so good.
And she said, what matters is the espresso.
I use the brand Illy and I make the espresso fresh for each drink, never a large batch because the espresso can burn.
So you know what?
I appreciate that Morgan.
I made one large batch of espresso and I did not have Illy.
So I mean, I kind of wish I had used her.
Megan like made us our drinks and then was like, I followed only one step of it.
No, I followed her.
She uses the Kettle One recipe.
So that is one part espresso, one part vodka, one part espresso liqueur.
Yeah.
And then Colleen and I added a splash of Bailey's.
We had to make it Irish.
But you know what I did do?
She told me always, all caps with asterisks, always freeze the cup.
So I did.
We then promptly had to pour them out of the cups because Colleen spilled 15 times while trying to take our photo for the grid.
It was a really hard cup for me to hold.
So anyway, thank you, Morgan, for the recipe.
So that being said, shall we get into our story?
Yeah.
So in the fall of 1888, London was a booming metropolis under economic strain due to the massive influx of immigrants and refugees.
Whitechapel, an area in the East End, was an overcrowded neighborhood with poor employment and dire economic conditions.
As a result, many women were forced into casual prostitution to survive, and it was many of these women who fell victim to an unknown serial killer lurking in the dark, shadowed alleyways.
The killer was named Jack the Ripper, either a self-proclaimed nickname or one coined by the press.
But beyond that alias, the killer's identity remains a secret, even now, 130 years later.
For more than a century, whispers have persisted that the Ripper murders were not the work of a lone madman, but part of a deeper conspiracy.
Theories have pointed to royal cover-ups, Masonic plots, and a police force accused of burying the truth.
This week, as we approach the end of True Crimeber, we are discussing one last British mystery, the story of Jack the Ripper and the conspiracy theories related to his or her potential identity.
Feminism.
What year was it?
1888, and actually I got 100 years before I was born.
Whoa.
Do you guys-
Old.
Do you guys know much about-
Hold on.
I'm having a revelation.
There's a character who performs at the Renaissance Fair called Jack the Whipper, because he makes music with the whip.
I'm just now understanding his name.
Okay.
Colleen is not familiar.
Kait, were you familiar?
Yeah.
I'm familiar.
Didn't Johnny Depp do a movie as Jack the Ripper or something?
Winnie the Pooh?
Oh, that's not sweet.
No.
Kait loves musicals.
She would know.
Yes, he did.
From Hell.
Whoa.
He did do a movie, and I did watch From Hell, and that was in my Johnny Depp era, because who didn't have a Johnny Depp era?
I never did because I thought he was always gross and greasy.
Oh, so you didn't watch Men Pirates of the Caribbean and think I could do that?
No, but I did watch Men Pirates of the Caribbean.
Is it not the Caribbean?
Listeners, let us know where it might be.
I do know that Jack the Ripper has never been able to find anyone who was actually Jack the Ripper, and he was like a serial killer, obviously, in the 1800s.
And yeah.
Don't they think that he didn't, he or she, they didn't actually do all the kills?
Like it's a lot of people copycatting him?
So yeah, we're going to touch on that here in just a second.
But you want to be right.
So I will be honest, as I think the most true crimey person here, most well read, Jack the Ripper is not something I was very knowledgeable about.
That's surprising to me.
So this was kind of an interesting deep dive, and I was definitely surprised by the conspiracies I learned about it.
So let's go back to 1888.
London was booming.
Yeah, London was booming.
Is that your East End accent?
London was booming.
Again, there had been this massive influx of immigrants, including Irish immigrants and Jewish refugees fleeing the Russian Empire.
And Whitechapel was this area in the East End that became very overcrowded.
Unemployment and homelessness was rampant.
So these dire economic conditions led to a ton of crime.
And again, a lot of women were forced into prostitution to survive.
So at the time, just to kind of paint a picture of what this neighborhood was like, there were 62 brothels and over 1,200 prostitutes in Whitechapel.
I know we call them sex workers now, right?
Yeah, but I'm not going to be able to keep correcting myself.
I call them prostitutes.
So listeners know that we...
I don't agree with calling them sex workers.
I think you just can't call them hookers.
Okay, well, I won't do that.
Yeah.
That's never a term I've used.
So there were 8,500 people who resided in 233 common lodging houses.
So these were like cheap, unregulated accommodations where unrelated individuals would share rooms and sometimes beds to sleep or eat, often for unsanitary conditions.
I actually called them like coffin beds.
It was just like, wait, wooden.
Was it like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
I don't know.
I've never seen that.
You've never seen Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?
No.
Well, my god, Johnny Depp creeps me out.
It's a musical, not the original.
And the original I've not seen.
No.
It's like Alice in Wonderland for me.
I feel trapped.
No way.
We're going to talk about Alice in Wonderland today also.
We are watching.
I'm going to say this also, but I did not like, I don't like The Wizard of Oz.
I also felt trapped in The Wizard of Oz.
Don't know what that says about me.
Did you just feel trapped because you had to sit down and watch a movie that was longer than 90 minutes?
No, I feel trapped when the character can't ever leave.
So to rent a bed was four pence or two euros today.
People couldn't afford their two dollars a day to sleep.
But hold on, two dollars a day in 1888 had to have been a lot of money.
Well, it was four pence.
It was four pence, which equivalent, I know this really throws it off when we talk about how the value of a dollar has changed.
Yeah.
I'm getting confused.
We're talking about what would today be two euros.
That's what I'm saying.
Back in 1880, it wasn't two euros.
It was four pence.
I've done the math.
I have solved it so that you can think about it in terms of relatable.
It would be the same, Kait, as right now, you're going and saying, I don't have two dollars for a roof over my head tonight.
Don't think about the money.
Just think it was two dollars.
Yes, exactly.
Okay.
What's important to know is that people could not afford a roof over their head for the night from a boarding house.
Okay.
There was a lot of poverty.
In the coffin beds.
In the coffin beds.
Yeah.
Additionally, tensions were high at this time, with public unrest and a rash of anti-Semitism, racism, and nativism.
In the 1880s?
Yes.
Okay.
This gets back to the point you made, Colleen.
Between April 1888 and February of 1891, there were 11 separate women murdered.
But as you mentioned, we don't know that all 11 of these murderers were the same person.
Right.
But there's patterns.
So let me tell you about the ones that we think we can attribute to a single person who came to be known as Jack the Ripper.
Okay.
So we're going to talk about what is known as the canonical five.
So these are the five murders that are most likely to be linked to one killer, Jack the Ripper.
This is Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes, and Mary Jane Kelly.
They were killed between August 31st and November 9th of 1888.
These women were prostitutes.
We believe took their customers to hidden locations, which is kind of creepy when you think about the fact that they picked their crime scenes.
They were like, I know a secret spot.
Let's go.
We probably got off on that.
Creepy.
So Mary Ann Nichols died on August 31st, 1888.
Robert Paul left for work and he ran into Charles Cross, another man on his way to work.
Charles said, come and look over here.
There's a woman lying in the pavement.
Well, they approached and noted she was cold.
So Charles Cross thought she was dead, but Robert Paul thought that she was breathing.
But they're not dead till they're warm and dead.
But not in the 1880s.
That's right.
But they didn't want to be late to work.
I didn't help her?
But you know what?
Here's my question.
How many people were actually laying dead in a ditch somewhere in London, if the poverty was that bad?
This was on the street.
Okay, but how many people were there?
To be that, not that empathetic about it.
It might have had to have been a lot.
Also, I don't know, it just seems like no one ever sleeps in this story.
Like, they're going to work at 345 in the morning.
What were they doing?
Anyway, I don't know.
Not in Portland.
Let's not get distracted in the details.
I actually do think there was an actuary worker.
So they were like, we got to just go to work, but you know what, if we see a cop on our way to work, then we'll tell them.
We'll let them know.
Okay, I'll give them that.
So I wrote like, I mean, I guess it's not like they can call.
Hey, Kait, when were phones invented?
Well, back in 1876, an old boy named Bill.
So phones did exist.
Phones existed.
Yeah, but probably not in the Portland outroads.
Anyway, about 345, so five minutes after the two men first found the body, a constable was on the scene.
He just happened to go by because all these cops do is wander the streets.
Right.
They think the time of death was right around 340 when that body was first found by Charles Cross and Robert Paul.
Oh, okay.
So maybe she still was breathing at the time.
Maybe.
Oh, is that a hint, Megan?
The body was noted to have two deep incisions in the throat, one of them even deep enough to sever the vertebrae.
Whoa.
It was alive?
No way.
And the woman had been disemboweled, but no organs had been removed.
But as we progress, he's going to escalate.
Okay.
Take things out.
How do you look at someone and think they could be dead when they've literally been disemboweled?
Well, also, if they have a dress on me, I mean-
There was no blood?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
That's a-
Yeah.
Wow.
It was dark.
It was early.
She had a dress on.
So some of these wounds throughout, that they find when they-
Oh, they did up the dress.
I forgot.
It was 3.40 in the morning.
Yeah.
Sorry.
These assholes.
But her vagina had also been stabbed twice.
Again, the only reason I'm telling you this information is to be like, we're going to start to see.
This is why we can put these five together.
Because they escalate.
Because they're very similar and they escalate.
Okay.
All the wounds were inflicted in a downward thrusting motion.
Again, this victim was Mary Ann Nichols.
She was a 43-year-old with six children.
Oh.
Her last known address was a common lodging house.
Like, I feel like all of their last known addresses was a common lodging house.
On the evening of August 30th, she had attempted to rent a bed in a lodging house but was turned away because she didn't have money.
An acquaintance last saw her stumbling down the street drunkenly at 2:30 a.m.
They were her kids.
I know.
That's what I was thinking.
Where's her kids now?
Annie Chapman, September 8, 1888, 5:50 a.m.
So a tenant found a woman dead in the backyard of a residential home.
Oh.
He noted the front door to be wide open, though a witness who was there an hour prior claimed to have closed it.
Then he proceeded to the backyard, which was like a backyard that was enclosed by a little fence, and opened the door and there was a woman lying on her back.
Okay.
The doctor investigating the scene said that the body was terribly mutilated, with the throat de-severed.
Oh, no.
That was a quote.
De-severed is not a word I would use.
I would say severed.
Yeah, de-severed.
De-severed.
The patient had been disemboweled with the abdominal organs placed next to the cork.
Oh, my God.
He had two deep throat slashes and she had flesh placed on her left shoulder and intestines removed, and placed on her right shoulder.
Her uterus, vagina, and bladder were removed and were missing.
I'm thinking he's like a mad scientist.
That's what I was thinking.
Yeah, trying to fertilize.
It gets into people trying to figure out if this guy had medical knowledge.
Is that sort of a thing?
Sorry if he didn't.
People disagree on that.
Like a surgeon.
So this time though, there were missing organs, like I said, no missing organs last time, and her personal items, which like a brush and a comb, were neatly laid out next to her and she had evidence that two rings had been forcefully removed from a finger.
Again, the medical examiner suspected the murderer had anatomical knowledge, saying, there were no meaningless cuts.
Oh, she was a prostitute?
They were all prostitutes.
I'm about to tell you about her.
Okay, the victim was 47-year-old Annie Chapman, a mother of seven.
Oh, but actually, you're gonna get sadder.
Five of her children had preceded her in death.
That's sad.
She also had a last known address of a boarding house and had also been turned away for a bed due to lack of funds the night prior.
Oh, and I bet he looks rich.
An officer escorted her off the premises at 1:50 a.m.
So, again, we have a similar victim profile escalating violence.
What makes this case different is there may have been a witness.
A female reported walking down Danbury Street at 5:30 a.m.
So they're like right in front of where this house is.
And seeing Annie Chapman and a man talking on the street, but she only saw his back.
She heard the man say, will you?
And the female say, yes.
They had a hard time with the time of death here, which I'm not going to get into, but it sounds like people, they put the time of death anywhere between 4.30 and 5.30, but there was this witness at 5.30.
So we think probably 5.30 and the doctor and the police said it was really cold, maybe that messed with the time.
Timing.
So at this point now, we have two murders.
The Central News Agency of London received a letter from an author claiming responsibility and to watch for, quote, the next job, in which he would clip the ladies' ears off and send them to the police.
No way he did that.
It was addressed, Dear Boss, and signed Jack the Ripper.
What?
You're trying to say you're not listening?
So the press shares this with police, but this was not, like, printed or shared with the public initially.
Yeah.
They didn't react.
But it's important to note that they got this letter after the second murder, before the third murder, and in that letter, he said, next time, I'm going to send you an ear.
Okay.
Then it's September 30th, and this, we got a double murder.
Okay.
So the first victim was Elizabeth Stride.
It's September 30th, 1 a.m.
A man approached a club and found a woman lying on her side.
He couldn't tell if she was drunk or dead, and he ran into the club to check on his wife, who was fine.
Okay.
They were at this, like, social club.
He leaves, he comes back, he's on his horse and buggy carriage, and he's coming up to meet his wife at this club.
He sees this body, he's like, I don't know if this is drunk or dead, what's going on?
He races in, sees his wife, he's like, reassured, everything's fine.
And then he says, guys, there's this lady outside.
So everyone goes outside, and they note that this woman had her throat slit and was still bleeding.
Oh, so this is new.
Recent.
She had a single incision across her neck, which had severed her left carotid and her trachea.
The men ran off to find police, and we know that there were men outside this club at 1230 that saw nothing.
So they think that her time of death was within minutes of being found.
So probably is it possible that...
He was supposed to be standing there.
Well, he got interrupted by this horse and carriage coming down the cobblestone roads, and he fled because she had no abdominal mutilations.
She just had this slit throat.
Right.
She was a 44-year-old Swedish immigrant who had given birth to a stillborn daughter but had no surviving children.
Her husband had died, and she was making a living as a prostitute.
Her last address was a common lodging house.
Was he thinking like, they're better off dead?
I don't know.
We'll talk about the motives.
So then what we theorize happened is he got interrupted.
Right.
He didn't get his fix.
So then he went to somebody else.
So then he went to someone else.
There are no ears yet.
So same day, less than a kilometer away, at 1:44 a.m., a police officer, doing his rounds, found a body.
This officer had last been at this location at 12.30, making his rounds, comes back at 1.44, just over an hour later, and finds his body.
Oh my gosh.
This woman was lying on her back with her throat cut, her bowels protruding in a pool of blood.
Again, her intestines were placed over her right shoulder.
Left kidney and part of her uterus had been removed and her face mutilated, including her left ear cut completely through.
Time of death was essay to be just minutes prior to being found.
So also, I'm like, how did all these people died minutes before?
Right.
How did this guy keep getting away with it?
I wonder if he studied the rouse.
About the officers?
Yeah.
Oh.
So this victim was 46-year-old Catherine Eddowes.
She had escaped her abusive husband and was estranged for five children.
These poor women.
Her last one address was a common lodging house.
She had been drinking the night before and was found passed out at 8:30 PM the night before.
She was actually put in the drunk tank at the police station until 1 AM and then was let out.
Oh, she was safe.
And she was spotted 10 minutes prior to her body being found in the company of a man dressed like a sailor with a red handkerchief around his neck.
Jack the Ripper.
Ripper?
Ah, he was a seaman.
Okay, so again, we think that the killer was interrupted at that first scene, fled 15 minutes to the second scene.
There were some people who had seen Elizabeth Stride, the first victim on the night prior.
But let me tell you the most interesting story.
Israel Schwartz was walking down the street at 1245 and said he saw a man throw a woman to the ground and the woman screamed three times.
So he said, I think that was Elizabeth Stride.
He just decided to cross the street and avoid the...
Oh, my God, I had to...
And when he crossed the street, he saw a man smoking a pipe and watching the scene unfold.
The man attacking the woman then turned to the pipe smoker and addressed him as Lipsky.
He said, Lipsky, and then followed him a little ways as he proceeded down the street.
So this led to this theory that, like, were there two conspirators?
Oh.
Oh, killing together.
One to watch and one to kill.
But Lipsky was an anti-Semitic slur.
And Israel Schwartz had a strong Jewish appearance, that's in quotes.
So it's possible that his assailant was just, like...
Making fun.
Yeah, like, hey, get out of here.
And he and this other guy, the pipe smoker, were just trying to lead the scene and that pipe smoker had nothing to do with anything.
Okay.
Those two have died.
Just before 3 a.m., Catherine Eddowes, who was the second victim, a piece of her bloody apron was found a few blocks away, and above it, a note written on a wall in chalk that said, the Jews, spelled J-U-W-E-S, are the men and will not be blamed for nothing.
What?
How do you spell it again?
J-U-W-E-S.
The Jews are the men?
That will not be blamed for nothing.
I just want you to remember it.
We're going to discuss it in a little bit.
But remember that, because we don't know whether this was written by the perpetrator or if it was just a coincidence.
Was it anti-Semitism?
Anti-Semitism and graffiti were very commonplace here.
Either way, the police commissioner was like, we can't have, they interpret this as anti-Semitic.
They said, we can't have that.
That's going to wrap people up.
So immediately, they washed it.
After the double murder, the Central News Agency of London received a postcard covered in blood that said, double event this time.
Oh, so it's in the news now.
Well, remember, the news got a letter.
Right.
Didn't publish it.
Right.
Scared of police.
Right.
News gets another letter.
OK.
Double event this time.
Number one squealed a bit, couldn't finish straight off, had not time to get ears for police.
Thanks for keeping last letter back till I got to work again.
End quote.
Oh, my god.
Creepy.
The news today would have posted that.
Because remember, it would have been on social media.
Yeah.
Because remember, the ear of the second victim was cut almost completely through.
Yes.
But wasn't missing.
So the thought is, did he get interrupted trying to get this ear?
This time, the police are like, we should probably release this letter to see if anyone recognizes.
The handwriting.
Who this could be.
Oh, it was handwritten.
Yes.
Well, they can typewriter.
So this time, the police publicized the letter in hopes that someone would recognize the writer, but all it did was bring more publicity to the crime.
The letters were signed Jack the Ripper, and again, that's where the nicknames come from.
I was just going to ask.
So there were actually like tons and tons of letters, and we believe that most of them, if not all of them, were not actually from the killer.
Really?
But there's three, including these two that I talked about, that they think are most likely to be from the actual killer.
Throughout the duration of what's going to happen, there were lots of letters.
Okay, and you think people were just impersonating him?
They think at least most of them, if not all of them, were not from the killer.
Why would they do that?
I mean, people do that now.
Yeah, okay.
So, we do know from modern, linguistic experts that the same person wrote these two letters.
Okay.
So whether or not it was the killer, at least these two letters are like, this is the same.
100% the killer.
Yes, Colleen.
What's the vocab word you said?
Linguistic experts.
You should watch the special on the Unabomber and how the linguistic expert thought of that crime.
That is the person that I always say, don't know who that is.
And then Jordan likes to remind me that she made me watch the whole documentary and I still don't know who the Unabomber is.
Okay, so we know that these letters came from the same person.
We don't know that that's the murder.
We also know the handwriting that was on the wall about the Jews didn't match the handwriting of this letter.
So again, make do with that what you will.
There was another letter sent to a member of the Vigilance Committee who were local businessmen trying to crack the case.
And it came with the half of a kidney, which was determined to be human, and may or may not have matched Etto's missing kidney.
Oh my God.
Oh, it's human.
Apparently, they looked at it.
Dr.
Lopez said, this is human.
One of the theories is that one, if not all of the letters were actually written by the press to build interest in this case.
Oh.
What?
I like that.
I don't like that.
That's some fake news.
So these murders happen.
They up their surveillance.
Surveillance.
Thank you.
And things kind of quiet down.
And the cops are bragging like, look, we've scared the murderer off.
Right.
Which is a bad idea.
No, because you know what?
If anything, we know we're dealing with a narcissist.
Yeah.
Who-
Yeah.
A narcissist who says, I got interrupted.
I'll send you an ear next time.
Thanks for waiting for me.
I hope he signs a letter that says, can I lend you a hand?
Okay.
So a landlord noted that his tenants were behind on their rent, so he went to the room to talk to them.
Nobody answered, but through a broken window, he saw a woman dead on a bed.
Oh my God.
The door was locked and had to be forced open.
This is the worst of them all, guys.
The body was cut all to pieces with her throat severed down to the spine and the abdomen almost emptied of its organs.
Her uterus, kidneys, and one breast had been removed and placed under her head.
Other organs were by her foot.
The heart was missing.
I'm trying to think what that means.
Like, is he being poetic?
The victim was Mary Jane Kelly in her mid-20s, but there's not a lot of info on her because she may have been using a false identity.
Oh.
She was working as a prostitute and had a live-in partner, but they had separated the week prior over disagreements about her lifestyle.
Just before midnight on November 8th, her neighbor saw her and a man entering her home and said she was extremely intoxicated.
At 2 a.m., she was seen having a cordial interaction with a well-dressed man, and the two went to her apartment.
He had gloves and a parcel with them.
At 4 a.m., there were female cries of murder heard by some residents, and this is considered to be Jack the Ripper's final victim.
Oh.
So one of the theories I'm going to get into when I talk about the theories is that she had this live-in boyfriend, and he was like, I don't like you being a prostitute, and they broke up, and they had been seen earlier in the day.
So one of the theories is that he was actually killing all these women to scare her out of prostitution before he killed her, but I don't believe that theory.
Okay.
So I'm not even going to get deeper into it because there's so much to talk about.
Again, there were 11 murders over three years.
The general accepted theory is that these five murders that I talked about were all connected.
They were all perpetrated at night, on or close to a weekend with escalating aggression and mutilations.
Some believe that Nichols Chapman and Etos were the only victims of the Ripper.
Others think there were six victims.
The five canonical and one more that occurred in early August.
This was actually like the first one.
And this is when a man was on his way to work.
A man was on his way to work at 4.45 in the morning and found a woman covered in blood in a housing complex.
And the victim was 39-year-old Martha Taber, a mother of two.
She had separated from her husband and was living in a lodging house and working as a prostitute.
She had suffered 39 stab wounds to her throat, lungs, heart, liver, spleen, stomach and abdomen with additional knife wounds inflicted to her breast and vagina.
So anyway, people are like, I don't know if this includes, it counts, I will say it sounds maybe more aggressive, but like pretty, it's nowhere.
And none of these women were raped, which also feels very like a choice.
We know that though.
We do know that.
I just don't trust.
They were, a couple of them may have been assaulted with like a knife, but like no one, no one was actually, they were like, they might, he might have been getting sexual pleasure out of this process, but he did not rape them.
Ugh.
Disgusting.
A criminal profile was created.
And as far as we know, this is the first such profile ever done.
Wait, like profile as like, yeah, coming up with suspects.
No, coming up with like, we think the suspect is a man between this age and this age, who probably is married and who probably, yeah, like Criminal Minds, that show, people watch that show.
Right.
Okay.
With you.
Okay.
Dr.
Thomas Bond concluded that all five murders were committed by the same perpetrator who first cut the throats from left to right.
The victims were all lying down when killed.
He was left to right.
Must have been a righty.
He was believed to be a strong middle-aged man with non-threatening appearance who dressed respectably.
Now, up until this point, everyone had thought that whoever this was had some kind of anatomical knowledge and was either a physician or a butcher.
Dr.
Thomas Bond is the first person to say, I don't really think that he had anatomical knowledge.
While there is no evidence the perpetrator engaged in sexual activity with the victims, the violet penetration and way the bodies were left indicate the murderer may have gotten sexual gratification from the crimes.
If you compare the witness statements, again, and there's always witness statements, but people have done like tables and they don't all line up.
But in general, the consensus is that he was a man of average height, of medium to stout build in his mid-20s to mid-30s with a mustache.
Of course, he wore dark clothes and a hat, but again, no one really knows how much we can take the word of all these women.
How many men wore hats?
I actually wrote that I do think he had some anatomical knowledge because it was so dark, they couldn't even tell these people were dead.
If it's pitch black, all of these happened in minutes, from when they were last seen to when they were discovered.
I feel like he had to have some.
He knew what he was going for.
Yeah, I agree.
I think that there has to be anatomical knowledge.
He knew that a slash, especially to the trachea and the carotid at the same time.
Yeah, you're done.
He knows, yeah.
The way you described him placing the organs makes me think he's being poetic about it.
He's removing the uterus and taking it with him, or he's removing the uterus and laying it next to her as if to say that it had meeting.
You know what I mean?
So he knew which organ to remove to make a statement, is what I'm saying.
Yeah, he wanted some sort of message to be delivered, even though I don't think anyone put together a message with what he was doing.
So there were thousands of people questioned, hundreds investigated, and we still don't know that your identity.
Crazy.
Before we get into some of the crazy conspiracies though, let's review a couple of the most likely suspects.
Now, they said all these people who have supporting evidence also have had things to rule them out.
Oh, okay.
But I'm leaning towards this guy, Charles Cross.
So remember at the very first story I told you, two men found him, right?
Yes, Charles was the name.
Charles Cross found the victim, and then another man walked up, and Charles Cross said, there is a lady here, she could be dead.
But he was the one who was convinced he was dead.
The other one said, I think she's breathing.
Yeah.
So you're thinking Charles Cross is Jack.
Maybe he pretended like he was just a witness.
Yes.
But it's because he got erupted.
Yeah.
And that's why her organs, she had her belly cut, but her organs were not removed.
His name was actually Charles Lechmere.
So people were like, why are you living under an assumed identity?
When they tracked his commute from home to work, it coincided with the time and place of the murders, except for Eddowes and Stride who were killed on a Sunday.
But the murders were all on holidays and weekends, so he shouldn't have really been passing them on his.
But maybe he passed them on his normal work route, and he was comfortable with them.
Yeah, he watched them.
And Stride and Eddowes, who were the only two who were not killed on his usual route, they were killed by his mother's house on a day that he had gone to visit his mother.
Oh, I'm buckling down on that.
I think it's him.
So I think he's a good suspect.
And they never arrested him?
No, they did not ever arrest him.
Aaron Kaczminski was a Polish Jewish barber who lived in Whitechapel, who had a history of schizophrenia, with visual and auditory hallucinations, paranoia, delusions and distrust of women.
He was institutionalized in 1881, because one of the other things is like, there were all these murders in like a two, three month window, and then they just stopped.
Right.
So if they stopped, they're looking at people who were sent to an institution, people who were arrested, who died.
So he was institutionalized the year it stopped?
Well, he was institutionalized two years later, so that feels like a little late for me.
I don't think so.
Some of the senior police said that they had a man who identified him, but didn't want to go on record against a fellow Jew, and they never had the evidence to try him.
So this is one that the police have written, like this was kind of the guy that we most suspected.
Then the plot thickened, because in 2014, there's this shaw that this family had, that had been passed down for generations, that was like allegedly from a shawl, Eddowes Shaw, who was the second one on the double murder night.
And so passed down for generations, and people were like, oh yes, this belonged to Catherine Eddowes.
And there was, so they did a DNA test on it in 2014, and said it matched Kuzminski, but it didn't really match, it was mitochondrial DNA.
It had been fragmented.
Well, it was mitochondrial DNA.
The DNA was allegedly seminal fluid.
So first of all, we don't even know, and again, there's no train of custody on this.
Right.
We don't know where it came from, who it really belonged to.
If we were to believe it belonged to the victim, and she was a prostitute, how do we know she didn't have an encounter with this guy?
Right.
And it's totally unrelated to the murder.
And yes, the DNA matched descendants of Eddowes.
And again, I just, I don't understand why he was institutionalized two years later, three years later.
He had no history of violence, except for some, one time he said like, I want to kill my sister.
And that was sort of it.
Yeah.
Which is, I don't know, could be interpreted.
Was he like a kid who said that was annoying or was he like, really?
But he had no, actually when he was institutionalized, they said he was like catatonic and his physicians wrote that he was harmless.
So again, this is who a lot of the investigators suspected.
Again, there are literally hundreds of people.
You could look these up.
We don't have time in our one hour podcast to get into all of these.
There's a monocue, John Druitt, who was a school teacher at a boarding school who had been let go for, here's your homosexual part.
Please don't worry.
Homosexuality, which was called sexual insanity.
Right.
At the same time, his father died, his mother was institutionalized for mental health.
So again, he was listed as one of the investigators, three prime suspects based on his family coming to the police with suspicions.
Oh.
Really the only, he was only suspect because he was found dead of suicide seven weeks after the last murder, so they thought that would exciting.
The end.
Yeah.
Although even seven weeks is a long time.
That is a long time.
For how quickly these all happened.
He had drowned himself with rocks in his pockets.
Which was a theory that we had for Lord Lucan also, right?
Yeah.
That's what his ex-wife claimed.
With rocks in his pocket?
To weigh him down.
That's how you-
Also, on my rocks.
That's not a way I would want to kill myself.
No, I feel like you're like, I'll just weigh myself down and then you can take the rocks out.
Or just die by drowning in his pockets.
But again, that's pretty much all the evidence they have was circumstantial.
I think he lived miles away and it's like this guy had to know the streets and to get away from the cops every time like that.
Right.
Had to be familiar.
Karl Feigenbaum was a German sailor, because remember there was a question if this guy was a seaman.
He was born in 1840, so he was a little old for this profile.
He spent a lot of time docked near Whitechapel, but they couldn't confirm he was there on the dates of the murders.
So one of the theories also was because it's like a big port city, where these people coming in on the weekends, getting docked, killing people and leaving.
So this guy could have done that, but they never kind of tracked him to like, he was here when these murders occurred.
In 1894, he brutally murdered his landlady, who was not a prostitute, but he killed her by cutting her throat and mutilating the body, and he was executed in 1896.
Then his lawyer claimed that he had told him he was Jack the Ripper.
But first of all, I'm like, attorney, client privilege, can the attorney really be like, he told me this?
Right.
It sounded like maybe this attorney was looking for his 15th.
Yeah.
He mutilated the body though?
He did mutilate the body.
Tumble Tee, this is the last one before we could talk about the conspiracies.
He was born in 1833 in Ireland, but was raised primarily in the US.
He was an herbalist pseudo doctor who was seen as a scam artist, but he was in London during the murders.
In November of 1888, he was arrested for gross indecency, which was homosexuality.
Someone bailed him out and then he fled to Britain and the US.
I guess he had been married to a woman in his younger years who turned out to be a prostitute, so we had a lot of disdain for women prostitutes.
He had a collection of organs, particularly uteruses, which are already in jars.
He would show off to people who came over.
But he was over six feet tall, which is very tall for what, especially at that time.
You would think he would stand out.
He also dressed flamboyantly, and he was older than what all the witnesses described.
If we believe the Whitney Statements, probably not him.
When he died, he had a brass ring, and people wondered if that was the ring.
Remember Annie Chapman, I said?
Yeah.
It was missing two rings.
So that's another suspect.
I don't know.
That's a good suspect too.
Well, the over six foot.
I mean, I guess you can wear a disguise, but when you're that tall.
Yeah, especially at that time.
Yeah.
Okay.
Again, there are a lot of other suspects out there, but those are the big ones.
So getting into some other theories.
One that's interesting is, was this really Jill the Ripper?
Oh, yeah.
I've heard this is actually a female.
And the thought is that maybe she was a midwife because she took the uteruses, cut off the boobs.
Perhaps she's performing abortions.
Oh.
This is supposed to explain why the murderer would have been out so early in the morning.
That's sad.
And if a midwife is walking down the street with a bloody apron on, no one is going to...
And they're all prostitutes.
So probably kidding right now.
A midwife would have the medical skill and anatomical knowledge.
In a 2006 study on saliva from the original Ripper letters suggested the sender was likely female.
Oh.
Saliva on the letter.
I kind of like the Jill theory, honestly.
Here's the theory that Kait has been waiting for.
Yes.
I don't think Colleen knows it, but I think she's going to get into it.
Are you ready?
Was it a royal conspiracy?
Mae Victoria's grandson, Prince Albert Victor, was the Duke of Clarence and Avondale.
If you believe this theory, he is the alleged perpetrator.
If not him, then someone who worked for him.
Okay?
So he was second in line to the throne, but he died of influenza at age 28 in 1892.
Uh-huh.
So the first mention of this theory is in 1962 when it was repeated by authors in the 70s.
So it sounds like at the time of the murders, no one was like, oh, we think it's the Royals.
That came much later.
So again, this goes one of two ways.
The first way is that Prince Albert contracted syphilis from a prostitute and went mad before killing prostitute.
The first argument was he died in 1892.
So it was like that's a four-year window because the murders stopped.
Yeah.
That being said, I did look it up, and psychosis sets in 3 to 30 years from the initial infection.
And once you have symptoms of neuro syphilis, death usually occurs in 3 to 5 years.
So that makes sense that he maybe had syphilis during this time and died in 1892.
But yeah, why a four-year break in the murders?
Unless maybe like the Queen figured him out.
Yeah, it was because of the syph.
Doesn't it decline you though?
Yeah, you get neuro syphilis get progressively worse.
Yes.
And then you, isn't it like you can't walk?
I feel like we would have like known about that.
Also, I feel like, wait, I feel like that would have been a description with all these people that like, this guy is a little bit off.
Here's what I think too about this theory is that, I don't think this, I mean, I think this person, Jack the Ripper or Jill the Ripper, I think it was Jack the Ripper, was, I mean, he obviously had mental health issues, but I don't think he could be like psychotic in the sense that we think of it, because he had to be very like methodical.
Yeah.
So I don't believe that someone who had a neuropsyphilis and was psychotic from neuropsyphilis.
No, it feels like a psychosis from neuropsyphilis or any type of psychosis would be more aggressive.
There probably wouldn't be as much pattern to it.
Well, I guess I think it should be kind of also if we go up to the guy who was schizophrenic, which I don't really believe the previous, you probably don't, I feel like those would be like crimes of passion.
Paranoid, you'd hear something, you'd go crazy, not necessarily be able to like stalk your victim, kill them, hear the police cop, flee away.
There's also not any writings that indicate that he was going crazy at the end of his life.
That being said, we do know that Prince Albert allegedly did have a lot of STDs.
He had a mustache which kind of matched some of the description.
So did Lord Lucan, right?
I'm sure a lot of Brits.
I think it was a trend back then.
Well, Lord Lucan was 100 years after him, but yeah.
But he was not in the correct age range, nor was he even in London on the dates of the murder.
London.
So we can remove neurocephalus, right?
But that doesn't mean Prince Albert didn't do it.
Well, you just said he wasn't in London.
But I also said it could have been an employee, right?
He's got a lot of people working for him.
You just say, hey, go cut her U to herself.
Well, let me tell you.
Another theory is that Prince Albert was secretly involved with a Catholic woman named Annie Crook.
So he was friends with this artist, Walter Sigert, who some people also name as a suspect because he had like kind of creepy paintings.
But he had an alibi and there was like no evidence of support that he's Jack the Ripper.
But anyway, Walter Sigert is this artist.
He's friends with Prince Albert.
Sigert had this model, Annie Crook, and fathered a child with her, a little girl named Alice.
So these two, if you believe this theory that Prince Albert had this illegitimate daughter with this prostitute.
Right.
They got married and the story goes that there were two witnesses at this wedding, Walter Sigert and Mary Jane Kelly, who was one of the victims.
What?
The royal family found out and then sent Annie Crook to an asylum and sent the child to live with Mary Jane Kelly.
Mary Jane had four friends and they sought to blackmail the Crown about the secret love child.
Sir William Gull, the royal doctor, was allegedly told to go take care of the witnesses.
Whoa.
Was the establishment trying to kill her and her social circle to prevent the truth from coming out?
The problem with this theory besides the fact that Sir William Gull was older than the witness statements is that Sir William Gull had actually had a stroke in 1887 and would have been physically incapable of causing these murders.
That's promising.
I know.
You were so excited about some royal...
Some people claim that Sickert wasn't on this.
Young Alice went to live with Sickert, who grew up and became his mistress, and then fathered a son with him.
This is like a real soap opera.
Yeah.
Sickert witnesses this marriage.
They have a baby.
The baby comes to live with him, grows up, and then becomes his mistress, and then he has a baby with it.
It's sort of giving, it's giving Jacob and Renesmee.
Yeah, ask me.
Nessie.
Nessie.
That's what she went by?
By the way, Nessie was in the book.
He called her Nessie, and then she said, Don't call my daughter.
Don't call my daughter.
You made my daughter after a monster.
The Loch Ness boss.
That was also, by the way, a clue in the New York Times crossword puzzle, when I got right.
It was like nickname for a something something.
I'm freakishly good at crossword puzzles.
I do pretty good Monday through Wednesday, and then I slow down.
Right.
And the story came from the son Joseph, the son of Sickert and his mom, Alice, who was allegedly the child of Prince Albert.
Okay.
So that son, Joseph, came forward, and he's the one who told the story, like, in the 60s.
We have zero evidence that the marriage occurred.
He wasn't in the country when Alice was conceived, or even any evidence that the son Joseph was even the prince's grandson, or was even the son of Sickert.
It's like this random guy who's just like, here's my family tree, but we have no proof proof.
The real Alice lived with her mother, Annie, in the 1900s, and Annie didn't enter an asylum until 1913 for epilepsy.
She died there in 1920, and she wasn't Catholic, so none of these facts line up.
I feel like if you're trying to cover up a crime, you could be more low-key about your murder.
Right.
Why would he be like, let's just slice them open and take out their uterus?
No, it all seems very-
I don't think it's him.
Next.
This gets next level when people allege that the Freemasons were involved in the plot to cover up the secret marriage.
So there's Freemasons going both ways.
There's Freemasons, you could theorize they're involved in that previous theory.
Right.
So the Freemasons were trying to protect the crown.
We know Freemasonry originated in England.
Go back and listen to our episode if you haven't.
And we know this was rampant in the well-to-do population, including government, church, and royals.
So if he was a member of an influential lodge, maybe he was protected by the police.
Were there Freemasons in the police department?
Oh, I'm sure there was.
Were the Freemasons covering up royal involvement, or were they just covering up for another of their peers?
The messages that the Jews, I told you about earlier, Jews, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was a spelling associated with the Freemasons.
J-U-W-E-S referred not to Jews, but to Jubila, Jubilo, and Jubalum, the three supposed murders of the semi-legendary Freemason, Hiram Abif.
Then remember that graffiti was immediately removed.
Right.
Because the detective was like, I don't want to make people mad, but maybe he was like, I'm high.
I don't want people to know.
Freemason?
Yeah.
Then there was also this theory that some of these mutilations could have been symbolic and they were associated with Freemasonry.
So the throat cutting and organ removal were interpreted as symbolic punishments in Masonic ritual.
What am I saying?
I said it was all for a reason in Poetic.
Yeah.
There you go.
I told you about the three Jews theory.
Again, so the question is, were these crimes not solved not from police bungling as we all think, but from police suppression of evidence to protect their Masonic.
A hundred percent.
Masonic bros.
Then I have one last potential theory that I thought was very interesting.
I don't know if it's conspiracy.
I probably should have done this before I got into the Royals, but I just think it's interesting.
The theory is that Lewis Carroll, the author of Alice in Wonderland, inspired with his friend Thomas Bain.
Wait, this is what my book is about.
Oh, okay.
So Carroll had inted at being sexually abused as a teenager at boarding school, and Richard Wallace, who named him as a suspect, is an author.
He's a Carroll scholar.
He's the one who said he could have done this.
He claims that Carroll being sexually abused as a teenager led to mental health issues and eventually a psychotic break.
He claimed there were hidden anagrams in Carroll's writings that were actually confessions.
So he looked at his 1888 Nursery Alice book, which, again, if you haven't heard the history of Alice in Wonderland, it's creepy enough to get them as drugs.
Well, also, why is he obsessed with young children?
Yeah, that's true.
I'm telling you, I knew as a child not to like that movie.
So he referenced the scene, and the scene is, so he went to the cook and we got her to make a saucer full of nice oatmeal porridge and then we called Dash into the house and we said, now Dash, you're going to have your birthday treat.
We expected Dash would jump for joy, but he did not one bit.
So then this author rearranged it and he said, this is an anagram for this.
Oh, we, Thomas Bain, Charles Dotson, cut it into the slain nude body, expected to taste devour, enjoy a nice meal of a dead horse uterus.
We may do, found it awful, went and tough like a worn dirty goat hog.
We threw it out, signed Jack the Ripper.
So one of you asked if he was a cannibal.
Yeah.
Wait, so some person is thinking every letter stands for this?
He rejumbled the letters from his book and that's what he got.
I don't know.
I don't know if I believe that.
That's a lot of work.
So he references other guy, Thomas Bain, who was Lewis Carroll's friend and alleged co-conspirator.
Then Charles Dotson was the real name of Lewis Carroll.
There's no proof of any of this.
Also, that was a pretty shitty grammatical anagram.
I would think a writer would do better than that.
He claimed that Carroll had a library of books on anatomy and that he lived within public transportation distance of the crime scene.
Also, his mom had, this is also a stretch, his mom had a long nose and that's why Richard Wallace claimed that the noses were mutilated on two of the victims, because it triggered him, his mom.
He claimed he had no alibis, but actually when the first four were killed, he was vacationing in East Sussex with a child actress, 14-year-old, Issa Bowman.
He was vacationing with a 14-year-old?
He was obsessed with a girl named Alice, who was like eight years old.
Yeah.
So creepy.
So yes, his pedophilia is his alibi that potentially clears him of this whole thing.
Seems legit.
When the final victim was killed, both he and his friend Thomas Bain were at Oxford.
Also, Thomas Bain had chronic back issues and was physically unable to complete these crimes.
Carol's handwriting did not match the letters, if you believe the letters.
But that's why Sir Richard Wallace says, oh no, Thomas Bain wrote the letters, and that's why it doesn't match.
The two were in on.
Then I just like that somebody wrote, they took the opening lines from Jack the Ripper, lay hearted friend.
This is my story of Jack the Ripper, the man behind Britain's worst unsolved murders.
It is a story that points to the unlikeliest of suspects.
A man who wrote children's stories.
That man is Charles Doxson, better known as Lewis Carroll, author of such beloved books as Alice in Wonderland.
And he took that and he was like, let me show you how easy it is to shuffle and make a new anagram.
Right.
And they changed that to, the truth is this, I, Richard Wallace, stabbed and killed a muted Nicole Brown in cold blood, severing her throat with my trusty Shiv's strokes.
I set up Orenthal James Simpson, who was utterly innocent of this murder.
Yes, I also wrote Shakespeare sonnets and a lot of Francis Bacon's.
Yeah.
So they're pretty easy to unscramble some words and make a confession.
Yeah.
I feel the same way about that.
It seems too clean.
Yeah.
And also what you said, it's just like, you're better than this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's what I have.
What do you guys think?
Do you think these were all the same killer?
Do you think they were separate killers?
Who do you think the killer was?
Charles Cross was suspicious, but I already can't remember why he could possibly not be it.
I don't think I gave you a reason he couldn't be it.
Yeah.
No, I think it's Charles.
But my question is, what happened for him to stop?
Yeah.
I want to know that as well.
I'm trying, like, yeah.
Because it stopped suddenly.
But there were other murders, we just think they were copycats.
Yeah, but like looking at them, they're like, it's like someone was poisoned.
So I was like, none of like, these all are so similar, even similar in MO.
Okay.
So we all think Charles Gross.
The reason, I guess, the people think it might not have been him, is that he didn't have a weapon on him or nearby, and there was no blood on his clothes when he was found.
But also, I feel like that would be easy to stash him back.
He could have thrown.
Right.
He did was cut her throat and then he had to abort.
No, he cut her belly a bit.
And again, this was on his regular commute, but like I said, it was a holiday, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be somewhere that he's-
I mean, he's got a day off, maybe he's got to do this, and doesn't mean he wouldn't pick a place that he was familiar with.
And then again, the fact that this guy lived until 1920, and then he died of like a brain bleed.
And so why did he stop for 32 years?
So those are kind of the holes in the theory.
Yeah, I do like the idea that it was Jane the Ripper with-
Oh, that was kind of serious.
Yeah, I just don't think a woman would be strong enough to like-
Hold down other women?
Well, maybe.
I mean, I guess other women might trust him.
Yeah, but they didn't move the bodies anywhere.
Like they were found where they were killed.
Yeah, at the time, it was all very-
So, yeah, never mind.
Yeah, I don't know.
I guess Charles-
The other thing too is, you think about like the gold state killer.
Yeah.
He committed dozens of rapes and stalking, and he killed 12 people, I think.
More than 10 people, for sure, 12 or 14 people.
And he just stopped because he was afraid of getting caught.
He was like, technology is improving, I'm going to get caught, so I'm just going to stop.
And then he just stopped, and then we discovered him decades later.
So I guess it is possible.
Maybe he's like, I've had a lot of close calls, and I have to stop.
And he wasn't killed or...
That is so...
It's so weird because they like...
The whole reason they kill is because it's like...
They can't control it?
Right.
But then they control it?
Yeah.
Well, he probably was doing other weird things.
Okay.
None of us believe it was a neurosyphilis, and none of us believe they were concealing a prostitute marriage.
No, it was Bill or Charles.
Okay.
Yeah.
But we don't know any woman that it could have possibly been.
Now, there's no individual.
I mean, there might be.
I don't have any.
In the ones that the investigators like, these are our top people.
In the stuff that's out there, because again, there's apparently thousands were interviewed.
There were hundreds of suspects.
I did not find a female who was a good enough suspect to be declared.
I don't know.
I bet you didn't know if Charles Cross was a Freemason.
There could be something to this.
Oh, yeah, because the graffiti was interesting.
Yeah.
Well, and like, Eddowes, who was the second one who was murdered on the double murder day, she went into this little enclosure.
She was found enclosed around a yard, and it was like a police officer's bedroom was like, people were like, how did nobody here see this?
I was like, well, it was.
Police officer found it.
There's a police officer living nearby.
I don't know.
So we're all strongly in this is not a conspiracy.
It's just, it's just one man.
We think he killed at least these five people.
One man with a plan.
Yeah.
But he never ended up delivering ears?
No, because I think he got interrupted.
So he tried to remove an ear.
But even the last couple bodies, there were no ears?
It just seems.
Well, the last one, and really the last one.
Damn.
The most gruesome, and they talked about how he spent a-
it was the only one that was inside.
It was in this-
Right.
It was a room.
So she was the only one who didn't live in a boarding house, but it looked like in the pictures, probably smaller in this room or now, and it was a twin bed, and there was a fireplace, and it appeared he had spent a lot of time there because he kept re-fire.
Yeah.
I know it's probably the only time where he didn't feel rushed because he wasn't-
So he took his time.
That's why.
Oh, so creepy.
So, okay.
Well, this was in the third-
Yeah.
My only question is what made him stop?
I mean, thank God he stopped.
Yeah.
What made him stop?
I think that's how they try to investigate is they were like, who has died and let's work our way back and let's pull them out.
Who has gone to jail and let's work backwards?
But okay.
Well, this was another heavy one.
We're going to lighten things up.
Our finale of True Crimeber next week is going to be shockingly a little more lighthearted.
I believe it.
Guys, just a reminder, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at 3SchemeQueens.
That's the number 3 SchemeQueens, all one word.
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If you want to check out our website, go to 3schemequeens.com and you can find links to our social media accounts, our Buzzsprout page, all of our episodes, additional content, and our contact page, where you can engage with us and share any updates on the topics that we have discussed.
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Kait, what should the people do?
Yeah.
I want you to pull out your phone right now and text three people that enjoy True Crime.
Enjoy Orgas Harvesting.
And Ears in the Mail.
Orgas Harvesting.
And what?
Ears in the Mail.
Ears in the Mail, Organ Harvesting.
I hope nobody who listens to us enjoys any of those things.
Well, I mean, you could harvest an organ to get it to a transplant center.
Yeah.
That's not what's happening.
Okay.
Well, you know.
Put the ear in the letter.
Then I want you to scroll on down, leave us a 5-star review, leave us a comment, share us on your Instagram or your social media platforms, interact with us on our social media platforms, and go share our reel.
Woohoo!
And hopefully, we'll be viral again soon, and Colleen will be in that one.
That'll be my time.
All right.
Thanks so much.
We'll see you guys next Tuesday.
See you next Tuesday.