The Assassination of Robert F Kennedy

Robert F. Kennedy, younger brother to John F Kennedy, former Attorney General and New York Senator, and a leading Democratic presidential candidate, was assassinated on June 5, 1968.  He was at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, California, shortly after delivering a victory speech following his win in the California primary.  The official story is that Kennedy was shot multiple times by Sirhan Sirhan, a 24-year-old Palestinian man. Sirhan was quickly apprehended at the scene and later claimed that he was angry over Kennedy's pro-Israel stance, particularly his support for Israel in the wake of the Six-Day War in 1967.  Kennedy was rushed to Good Samaritan Hospital where he succumbed to his injuries the following day, on June 6, 1968.

Although Sirhan Sirhan was arrested and convicted of the murder, many conspiracy theories have since emerged surrounding the assassination.  Some people believe that there may have been a second gunman or that Sirhan's actions were part of a larger plot. These theories have been fueled by the fact that Sirhan’s gun was only a small-caliber revolver which was inconsistent with the murder weapon, and the physical evidence suggested that the shots that killed Kennedy came from close range—closer than Sirhan was able to stand to the senator at the time. Some argue that there were additional shooters in the pantry, pointing to discrepancies in witness testimony and the trajectory of the bullets.

Conspiracy theories point to the possibility of CIA or other government involvement, citing the political climate of the time, with Kennedy being a vocal critic of the Vietnam War and a potential force for change in U.S. politics. Others suggest that powerful figures within the Democratic Party may have had motives for silencing Kennedy as he was gaining momentum in the race for president.   Did Sirhan Sirhan act alone?  Or was he merely a victim of MK Ultra?  Did he actually kill RFK, or was there someone else directly responsible?

Transcript

Hey, hi, how you all doing?

Welcome back to the 3Schemes podcast with your host.

3Schemes.

Megan, Colleen and Kait.

And I'm Tanner.

And I'm Murphy.

Yeah, hi Murphy.

You know who we don't have with us today?

Is Judge Barb.

Oh yeah, it's Bev.

I edited the same difference.

I edited the episode, I uploaded it, and I was listening to it in my car, and I just started laughing, because I completely missed that it's not Barb.

That you just went, you know who's to blame for this?

There's like multiple rants on it.

Yeah.

She's awful.

It's that Barb.

It's all Barb's fault.

There was a mistrial.

I forgot it was Bev.

Yeah.

She was awful.

Judge Bev.

Yeah, don't like her.

It's just funny.

It's like how we say it.

10% of everything.

I know 10% of everything.

But you're really passionate about your opinion.

Yeah, really passionate about that 10% that I know.

And it's come up more and more often.

Where I'm like, oh, I didn't know that right.

I'm also like, I feel like it's Pisces, like the daydreaming.

Like I have such an imagination.

I can fill it in so quickly.

Well, it's just like the other day, Megan and I were talking about like when we hear stories over and over again.

Oh yeah.

The comedian who does the, we follow him on Instagram, who does the like how different signs react.

Oh yeah.

And he did like, when you're being told a story you've already heard and you know that they're lying, how you react and the Virgo was like, hold on, I've got the proof, pulls out the phone.

Literally you.

And then the Taurus was like, oh yes, let me hear the story.

Makes you tell the whole story just to call you on how you've been lying.

And the Pisces is the one lying.

No, and the Pisces goes, the Pisces goes, are you sure this is right?

Oh, it is right.

Okay, okay.

And then just like shuts up and takes it as true.

If I think something's wrong, I speak up, I think.

I think you speak up.

It depends on if I'm passionate behind it.

You don't care to get in a fight about it.

Like, yeah, Peyton and I will like throw down about who's right.

And you'll be like, you're wrong.

And then you'll be like, but okay.

And yeah, like, I feel like you don't just let it go.

But you, I just feel like you'll be like to keep the peace in the moment.

I'll be like, no, okay, sure.

And then I'll turn around and in the group chat with YouTube, I'll be like, I cannot believe this fricking person right now.

Like, that's exactly what I'll, I rant, just not to the person I'm fighting.

I don't like tension.

You're trying to keep the peace.

Like when we were arguing about Benadryl, you sweep your foot down.

Oh yeah, put my foot around Benadryl.

I'm very anti-Benadryl.

Hey guys, soapbox.

Benadryl causes dementia.

Causes dementia.

In direct line to dementia.

Causes hyperactivity in children.

And we have newer generations.

You know, Zyrtec, Seysel.

Way better.

Just as effective.

Just as effective as Benadryl.

It just doesn't make you sleepy.

No.

But Benadryl doesn't even give you good sleep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, so speaking of things that could put us to sleep, how about a little cocktail?

Cocktail.

Yeah.

Drink check.

Yeah, drink check.

What are we drinking to this?

Does it taste like summer?

It does.

This is one of my favorite summertime drinks.

Honestly, the only thing that would make this better if we were sitting in Maine in the summertime.

On a porch.

Yes, on a porch.

Or maybe the Cape Nantucket.

Maybe on the Kennedy Compound?

Martha's Vineyard.

Oh, yes.

Honestly, I would love to live like the rich and famous for just one day.

Just one day.

Oh, my God.

Just to absolutely ball out for one day only.

And there's not a care in the world about how expensive this is.

Could you imagine?

No, I couldn't.

Oh, yeah.

I think about that.

When they do like the Taylor Swift, how much would these Lululemon pants cost Taylor Swift compared to us?

And it's the equivalent of a half ounce.

Five dollars.

Yeah.

Well, in honor of the warm weather.

Dollars, 11 cents, a half a cent.

In honor of the warm weather, we're drinking.

We're drinking some fresh squeezed lemonade.

From Megan's hands to our mouths.

That's right.

We're taking this fresh squeezed lemonade.

I added a little blueberry liqueur all the way from Iceland.

Delicious.

And a little shot of Tito's.

Yeah.

My favorite.

It's so good.

It tastes like summer in a glass.

That's really the vibe we're going for.

I love a blueberry lemonade.

Yeah.

I know you do.

Some glubs.

It's like my fave.

Almost as good as a Sonic cherry limeade.

We still have to take Colleen to try a cherry limeade.

Yeah, we do.

We're going to do that this summer.

All right, off.

So today we're going to talk about the last assassination in our little assassination trilogy.

Trilogy.

This is our third.

Is this really the third assassination?

Oh, we haven't done Abe Lincoln yet.

We talked JFK.

Right.

We talked MLK.

MLK.

I forgot MLK.

The final one of the three assassinations that the public seems to think the government is keeping secrets on.

JFK.

Is RFK.

RFK.

IRFKA.

We're supposed to get the receipts for all the Kennedys.

So we got the JFK receipts.

We're just waiting for people to read it for us.

Yeah.

We're still going through those guys.

We're just a girl.

But we're not lawyers over here.

We're not trying to go through a million documents.

I don't have time for that.

I need bullet points and I need it.

I need bullet points with things that are bolded, that are for importance and double-spaced.

That's what I need.

Yes.

So the JFK records were released.

We're going through those for you guys.

MLK and RFK are coming.

Right.

So the order was signed.

They have a deadline.

We're going to hear about that.

So I'm going to share with you guys what I know, what I learned.

We'll see what you guys think.

Share with the class.

Then hopefully in a few months, we'll figure out if we were right.

Also, we should do Abraham.

Yeah, we should.

But I just went in.

What are we going to do?

Marilyn Monroe too?

Yes.

I just feel like all the government assassination committees and stuff, these are the three.

Okay.

The trilogy.

So Robert F.

Kennedy is the younger brother to John F.

Kennedy.

Right.

He's a former Attorney General and New York Senator, and a leading Democratic presidential candidate who was assassinated on June 5th, 1968.

He was at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, California shortly after delivering a victory speech following his win in the California primary.

The official story is that Kennedy was shot multiple times by Sirhan Sirhan, a 24-year-old Palestinian man.

Sirhan was quickly apprehended at the scene and later claimed that he was angry over Kennedy's pro-Israel stance, particularly his support for Israel in the wake of the Six-Day War in 1967.

Kennedy was rushed to Good Samaritan Hospital where he succumbed to his injuries the following day on June 6th, 1968.

Although Sirhan Sirhan was arrested and convicted of the murder, many conspiracy theories have since emerged surrounding the assassination.

Some people believe that there may have been a second gunman or that Sirhan's actions were part of a larger plot.

These theories have been fueled by the fact that Sirhan's gun was only a small caliber revolver, which was inconsistent with the murder weapon, and that the physical evidence suggested that the shots that killed Kennedy came from close range, closer than Sirhan was able to stand to the senator at the time.

Some argue that there were additional shooters in the pantry, pointing to discrepancies in witness testimony and the trajectory of the bullets.

Conspiracy theories point to the possibility of CIA or other government involvement citing the political climate of the time, with Kennedy being a vocal critic of the Vietnam War and a potential force for change in US politics.

Others suggest the powerful figures within the Democratic Party may have had motives for silencing Kennedy as he was gating momentum in the race for president.

Did Sirhan Sirhan act alone or was he merely a victim of MK Ultra?

Oh, MK Ultra.

Did he actually kill RFK or was there someone else directly responsible?

Was he a patsy?

Yeah, was he a patsy?

Just a patsy.

I mean, it's just weird that they died around the same time.

They all were anti-Vietnam.

Right.

They all were like pro the working man.

Pro blue collar.

They all had political rivals.

Interesting.

So what do you guys think without any knowledge?

It's like a big conspiracy.

I feel like you heard MK Ultra and you were like sold.

I'm in.

Yeah.

I'm really intrigued like why they picked Sirhan Sirhan or Sirhan Sirhan.

Robert F Kennedy was born on November 20th, 1925 in Brookline, Massachusetts.

Oh, Brookline.

That's where my dad works.

It's not like a little Jewish neighborhood.

It's a very Jewish neighborhood.

He was one of the most, are the Kennedys Jewish?

No, they're well-renowned Catholics.

Yeah.

But it's just a really nice neighborhood to grow.

He was one of the most influential political figures of the 20th century.

He was the second youngest of nine children in the renowned Kennedy family.

His father, Joseph P.

Kennedy, senior, was a prominent businessman and ambassador, and his mother, Rose Kennedy, was deeply involved in charitable work.

He was the younger brother of President John F Kennedy, and like his brother, he became involved in public service and politics.

So after graduating from Harvard University, he attended the University of Virginia School of Law, UVA, and began his career as a lawyer, which ultimately led him to a life in politics.

His political career began when he was appointed as counsel to the US Senate's McClellan Committee, where he investigated organized crime.

We talked about this with JFK.

Yeah, they were anti-mob.

The mob did it.

Perhaps.

In 1961, his brother, President John F Kennedy, appointed him as US Attorney General, a position that he would hold until 1964.

He appointed his brother?

Yeah, nepo.

That's a very nepo.

As Attorney General, he became known for his passionate pursuit of civil rights, the fight against organized crime, and his commitment to social justice.

He was instrumental in the desegregation of public facilities in the South and aggressively pursued mafia figures, gaining both praise and criticism for his zealous approach.

After President Kennedy's assassination in 1963, Robert continued to build his political career.

In 1964, he was elected to the US.

Senate from New York, where he quickly became a leading voice for progressive causes.

During his time in the Senate, he championed civil rights, economic equality, and an end to the Vietnam War.

His strong advocacy for the poor and disenfranchised earned him the admiration of many Americans, especially young people, African Americans, and Latino communities.

His efforts also included a focus on improving education and health care for disadvantaged groups.

Because of his sister.

You know.

I know about his sister, yeah.

Do you know about his sister?

It's really sad.

It is sad.

In 1968, after a decade of public service, Robert Kennedy decided to run for the presidency.

His campaign was driven by a vision of peace, racial equality, and social justice, drawing widespread support across the nation.

However, his candidacy was cut tragically short on June 5th, 1968, when he was shot by Sirhan Sirhan, a Palestinian Arab while campaigning in Los Angeles.

So other than having an interesting name, who is Sirhan Sirhan?

Yeah, tell us.

You may ask.

He is a Palestinian man.

He was born on March 19th, 1944 in Jerusalem, which was then under British mandate.

When he was young, he and his family came over on a Christian sponsorship as Palestinian refugees and grew up in Pasadena.

By the 1960s, he became deeply influenced by political events, particularly the Palestinian cause.

His feelings of anger and disillusionment intensified following the Six Day War in 1967, which fueled his resentment towards US foreign policy, especially its support for Israel.

It's like nothing has changed.

Yeah.

It sounds like he never really found his Colleen, but he was training to be a jockey, like a little horse rider.

Oh, so he's tiny.

Had to have been tiny.

In 1966, and he was bucked off a horse and had a TBI.

It was like the first day he had ever gotten on the horse.

Oh no, that wasn't right.

No, and his family says he was never the same.

Well, yeah.

It's a TBI.

He spent a lot of time by himself, and he got into ancient mystical order of Rosea Christians, which is the spiritual religion that combines elements of Christianity, alchemy, hermeticism, Kabbalah, and other ancient wisdom traditions.

That sounds like a Bennett Witch stain.

Over the centuries, several groups have emerged, some of which have connections to Freemasonry.

Of course, it all goes back to the Masons.

While others are purely mystical in nature, these groups often emphasize self-transformation, the study of occult knowledge, and the development of inner wisdom.

So one of the things they do is they hypnotize themselves.

Now.

Okay.

On purpose.

Yes.

So remember this.

How can you hypnotize yourself?

Yeah, I thought hypnotism is all about somebody controlling your mind, controlling your impulses.

I don't believe in it.

Me neither.

I think it's all like hocus pocus.

That's true.

Well, what are you hypnotizing yourself?

It is a state of focused concentration and heightened suggestibility that a person induces in themselves using relaxation techniques, imagery, positive affirmations.

Yeah.

They enter a trance like state where the mind is open to receiving and acting on suggestions.

It's like severe mindfulness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Sounds legit.

So here's the official story.

What they told the public.

What the government would have us believe.

Okay.

On June 5th, 1968, at the age of 42, he was campaigning for the Democratic presidential nomination on a platform that included ending the Vietnam War, fighting poverty and promoting civil rights.

So on June 5th, he had won the California primary, which was a key race necessary to secure the nomination.

So that evening, he gave a speech at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles thanking his supporters.

He then proceeded to a press conference in the hotel's kitchen pantry.

He's walking through this back hallway, and there's like over 70 people crowded in this confined space.

He stops, he's shaking hands with people, and as he turned away to continue walking, shots rang out.

So per the LAPD official investigation, Sirhan Sirhan, a 24-year-old Palestinian Arab, approached him with a revolver and shot him at close range.

Oh no.

He fired eight shots from the gun with three striking Kennedy and five others getting injured.

So they say that the first shot struck Kennedy behind the ear, and this was likely the fatal shot that lodged in his brain.

The second shot passed through his suit jacket and struck Paul Schrade in the head.

Shots three and four entered under his right arm.

One of these bullets lodged in his neck, and the other passed through and lodged in the ceiling.

Shot five hit Ira Goldstein, shot six ricocheted off the floor and struck Erwin Stroll.

Shot seven struck William Whitesell in the abdomen, and shot eight ricocheted off the ceiling and hit Elizabeth Evans in the head.

So at the moment of the shooting, eight shots.

How close was he?

I'm so happy you asked.

Okay.

We're going to talk about that in just a second.

Okay.

Sirhan was quickly subdued by bystanders and tackled to the ground.

After being shot, Kennedy was rushed to the hospital where he underwent surgery, but ultimately succumbed to his injuries the following day.

So Sirhan, there's a whole documentary that's going to be our recommended content this week that actually looks at, like interviews Sirhan's family.

They say that Sirhan had told his brother, so Sirhan had been in JROTC, and he was like, hey, I really want to like practice my marksmanship again.

Could you get me a gun?

So his brother got a gun.

Yeah, that's, that's right.

Give the TBI guy a gun.

He was never quite right, but here's a gun.

I also feel like if, if like my brother was like, I'd like to practice my marksmanship, get me a gun.

I'd like, why don't you go through the approach training?

Did that exist in the 60s though?

I don't know.

You're asking great questions.

But still, I would think my siblings would have a questioning attitude if I said that.

Yeah.

So his brother buys a gun?

So his brother says he purchased a gun from his coworker.

But we have other witnesses who claim that they saw Sirhan Sirhan attempting to purchase a gun with a girl in a polka dot dress.

So Sirhan Sirhan claims that he has no recollection of anything.

Because as we go through everything that happened, he's like, I don't remember any of this.

Was he hypnotized?

Was he MKUltra?

Or is it just convenient to say?

Hypnotized.

I don't remember any of it.

Yeah.

Dr.

Fauci.

Anyway, so his version of events was obtained from audio recordings from him under hypnosis.

That's how we know what Sirhan Sirhan claims happened because he consciously has no recollection.

Wait, so they hypnotized him to get a confession out of him?

Is that what you're saying?

Well, he's like, I don't remember what happened on this day.

So like, well, let's hypnotize you and see if we can figure out what happened.

Put you in the trance that you were in.

Do you guys really think hypnotizing works?

No.

Yeah, that's the word.

No.

I keep thinking hypnotics, but that's not right.

I feel like it wouldn't work on me, but I feel like that's because I wouldn't be able to focus.

So I don't know that that means it didn't work on other people.

You have to be very susceptible to control.

I feel like you can't be skeptical.

Yeah.

And you're like the queen of skepticism, Megan.

Well, yeah, it's like why I don't like it by ghosts.

You know, oh, I definitely feel like I get visited by ghosts.

Well, yeah, I feel like you'd be open about that.

Yeah.

But I don't think I would be hypnotized.

I'd get too distracted.

What are you talking about?

Yeah.

I think that Colleen might be the most likely to get.

I don't think so.

Yeah, but I don't think I would.

I can't focus.

So it's like if I have to sit there and listen to you, try to chant me into a state, I'm going to be like, you got a funny shirt on.

You know what I mean?

I don't think I could.

That's true.

You might.

Yeah.

I don't think I can.

I think you would laugh at him.

Yes.

I can't zone in enough to be hypnotized.

Megan would just be like, this isn't going to work, and I would just be like, you can't tell me what to do.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I'd also be like, so embarrassing to be hypnotized.

Have you seen those party events where they do hypnotizing?

They did that my senior year of high school.

The girl who got hypnotized, so embarrassing.

Yeah.

They can do whatever.

They had her barking.

No.

Anyways.

I just don't believe it.

I just am like, you for real are somewhere, and then they snap their fingers, and then you come to again?

No way.

That's not real.

Okay.

Again, that is the whole story that we get from Sirhan Sirhan's point of view, was obtained under hypnosis by Dr.

Diamond, who was a psychiatrist, who was again, helping to try to help him recover memories.

And to be clear, Dr.

Diamond, Dr.

Diamond sounds like a real shady character.

Yeah.

I want to know Dr.

Diamond's credits.

Where did he go to school?

Oh, was he a psychiatrist?

She said psychologist.

He was a psychiatrist.

Oh, psychiatrist.

Oh.

Well, many people believe that he was involved in MKUltra.

Psychiatrists prescribe the meds.

Psychologists do the therapy.

Well, psychiatrists can also do therapy.

Yes, psychologists don't have prescriptive authority.

Right.

And so I think listening to some of the clips, it does sort of sound like Dr.

Diamond is coaching Sirhan Sirhan through the story, yes.

So if we believe his story that came out under hypnosis, on the day of the assassination, he bought two boxes of 22 caliber bullets and practiced for six hours at the shooting range.

Hold on, I would like to say, it's not that I think the people, like the only way I believe hypnosis is like somebody has like repressed memories.

Oh, I guess this guy would.

That's what he's alleging.

Yeah.

But isn't there like things where they like walk you through like-

Yes, but also how-

They have you relax and everything.

Child trauma.

Yeah, and then they'll be like, and what do you see in the door?

Like it's like very open-ended, like open-ended questions that help them like-

Yeah, but I'm also not 100 percent, I think I'm not saying that that's-

But isn't there also like a scientific thing that we're like, our minds will fill in the gaps for us?

I don't think that's-

I mean, we've proved ours fill in the gaps.

Right.

But isn't that scientifically proven?

I don't necessarily, people who recover these repressed memories in general.

I'm like maybe half the time, do I actually believe it?

So he claims he bought these two boxes and he practiced for six hours at the shooting range.

Then he tried to challenge his buddy to a game of pool, but his friend wasn't interested.

So he decided he would go check out some of the campaign parties.

He says he had four Tom Collins' Oh, my dad loves a Tom Collins.

It's like a lemonade, isn't it?

Gin, lemon juice, sugar and water.

That's essentially a lemonade though.

Gin and sparkling lemonade.

Well, that's what we should have been having.

That's like my go-to.

I love a Tom Collins.

Megan doesn't like gin.

Oh, I love gin.

So he had four Tom Collins, went to the hotel to get some coffee because he's like, man, I got accidentally drunk and now I have to drive.

So he's like, I need some coffee because I'm a little drunk.

And this girl in a polka dot dress helps him make coffee.

She said, he said she took him into a room.

And then he recalled being angry about how Kennedy was handling the Middle East.

But again, it sounds like on this audio, Dr.

Diamond might be kind of coaching him through like, well, weren't you angry about his handling of the Middle East?

Yeah.

So then someone was like, was this like our first ever Arab terrorist?

Or was he just another Patsy?

And then he doesn't really remember anything after that.

And we know that when his family went to visit him in jail the first time, and she was like, what happened?

He was like, I don't remember.

His story has always been like, I don't remember.

So anyway, he ended up pleading guilty due to diminished capacity based on his TBI, and he remains incarcerated in San Diego.

He's still alive?

He is still alive.

San Diego.

He was sentenced to death by gas chamber in 1972, but that was eventually commuted to a life sentence.

He was actually paroled in 2021, but then Governor Gavin Newsom blocked the parole.

Interesting.

So let's talk about, I'm gonna tell you about what the motive would be for this crime and then some of the inconsistencies in the official story, okay?

Okay.

So Paul Schrade, who I mentioned, he got shot.

One of the guys.

He was one of the guys.

He was a supporter, confidant and former leader of the United Auto Workers Union, and he was one of the bystanders, and he disagreed with the LAPD version of that.

So this sounds very similar to the JFK, where the people there, like the other people who got shot, were like, that's not how it happened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's like, none of the sequence events and how the guns were fired per the LAPD, how the gunshots went off, he disagrees with all of that.

Okay.

You were asking, Kait, how far away Sirhan was.

Yeah.

So if you believe the autopsy report, the shooter was standing one inch behind RFK.

One inch?

You know where Sirhan was?

Across the room.

Six feet away.

No way he was one inch.

One inch?

So he was, Sirhan Sirhan was six feet away, holding his gun parallel to the floor, not in an upward angle.

Okay.

Just straight on.

The gun shots that came from an inch behind RFK were in an upward angle.

Someone was holding the gun.

They were behind the gun.

Holding the gun.

Yep.

Oh.

Okay.

So all the witnesses who were present, if the autopsy findings are correct and that the shooter was an inch behind RFK, then all of the people who were there were like, well, we saw Sirhan Sirhan and there's no way it could have been him based on his location.

They claim, so the witnesses claim, that Sirhan Sirhan actually fired two shots, because there's eight shots total fired, right?

Okay.

They claim he had his gun out, he fired two shots, and the first shot struck a bystander, and then one shot hit the doorframe, got lodged in the doorframe.

And after these two shots were fired, because remember I told you that immediately all these people pounced on him.

Right.

So as soon as these two shots are fired, he gets pounced on and he's holding the gun in his hand, and they're banging his hand against the table to get him to let go of the gun.

And so as they bang his hand on the table six times, six shots go.

They were stupid to bang his hand.

Right.

Well, they were trying to get in control.

And so it was those six shots that came off that struck the five bystanders that we discussed earlier.

The first two, we don't think actually came from him.

He shot, I think he shot two shots.

Neither of those shots is what killed anybody.

But he shot two shots.

So one shot, they think was, one shot struck a bystander.

And one shot, and we're going to talk about this, lodged in like the wall.

The door frame.

I mean, I think what I believe here is this kind of second gunman theory, right?

So in 1975, the LA DA's office performed an investigation.

They claim there is little to no evidence to support the two gunman theory.

But again, this all is just very similar to JFK, in which it's like we have all these investigations.

And some of them are like, yeah, there was definitely more than one person.

And then some of them are like, oh, no, there's no conspiracy.

Right.

So what does that mean?

I don't know.

Speaking again about that, you asked about the number of bullets.

So we know there were seven bullets removed from from these patients, from RFK and these bystanders, and one was lodged in the ceiling.

And the gun could hold eight of us.

OK.

So if we say there are seven bullets in patients and one in the ceiling, that's eight.

OK.

So what we're saying then is if you find any other bullets, then it had to be a second gun.

And they found other bullets.

Well, there are FBI photos of multiple bullet holes in the walls.

But witnesses report that the police came in and removed the drawer jams and the sheetrock, dug out bullets.

And then again, we don't have any of this evidence because it all got destroyed.

So the witnesses who are there report that in all, they were probably about 13 bullets shot.

Okay.

This is also confirmed.

Yeah.

We never saw him reload.

No.

Because remember, they jumped on him.

Yeah.

He shot two and then.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

And so the theory is, if you believe these people who were like, the police came in, they removed all these other, you know, mis-fired bullets, then there were 13 shots fired.

And that can be confirmed by acoustic analysis.

So if you, like, the audio recordings they have of everything that was happening, there's kind of mixed results.

So a lot of people are like, yeah, that's clearly 13 shots, which coincides with the 13 alleged bullets we can count for.

Right.

But some experts have said, you know, these, oh, and the shots were too close together to have been a single gun.

So it could even, it would have had to be two shooters, as we've been saying, right?

Okay.

Now some experts have challenged the reports of 13 shots and said, I don't know if I really hear 13 shots on this acoustic analysis, but almost everyone agrees that there were at least 10, somewhere between 10 and 13 shots.

More than eight, Bill.

More than eight.

More than eight.

Yeah.

Yes.

Okay.

Where, how did they get acoustic recordings?

Well, there was a lot of press around because we had a press conference.

Okay.

So wouldn't you like to go back and see this bullet that's lodged in the doorframe that counters the entire official story?

Oh, yeah.

Have they never been able to get it out?

They changed the doorframe.

All the evidence destroyed.

Of course it was.

Do you know?

Of course.

And you know what?

The FBI had to destroy any evidence they had because it was just taking up too much room.

Oh, my God.

No.

Yeah.

The trial hadn't even finished and they had destroyed all the evidence.

I'm like, also, if you're out of room, I feel like there's probably other crimes you can destroy evidence for before one of the largest crimes in the century.

Or you're just like, don't they have money?

Just go buy another warehouse.

Just put it in the cheese caves or something.

Oh, my God.

But we do have about 20 FBI witnesses who reported seeing the additional bullets lodged in the doorframe and the wall.

So if you were to believe that there were more than eight shots fired, then there had to be a second person involved, right?

Because he only had eight bullets.

And if you look at all of this, and if you look at the bullets that lodged in the wall that didn't actually hit anybody, then there were more than eight shots fired.

So there had to have been two shooters.

Right.

So Dr.

Noguchi was the coroner.

Now he maintains that this was the perfect autopsy because he's like, I saw what happened with JFK.

I didn't want that to happen again.

I got all these experts to come.

They were all present.

And so he's like, this was a perfect autopsy.

And I'm telling you, the guy was behind him and shot him from an inch away.

But he wasn't permitted to testify at court.

In fact, he was fired and accused of being derelict in the autopsy because they wanted to shut him up.

Yeah, of course.

Or was it a bad autopsy?

They wanted to shut him up.

There's no doubt.

And RFK Jr.

maintains it was a perfect autopsy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

Sounds like they didn't want him to talk.

Sirhan Sirhan's lawyer did not try to dispute all this conflicting evidence.

He just had him plead guilty by diminished capacity.

So did he even have a good trial?

If he had just had a lawyer who would have been like, let's question all of this conflicting evidence.

I don't think they ever would have won though.

If they're fighting the government, they're going to get shot down one way or another.

Sirhan Sirhan actually asked for a new lawyer, but he was denied.

Isn't that illegal?

I think they have to have a good reason.

I think it also delays.

If you can't just fire your lawyer every year, because then the trial always gets postponed.

I'm sure there's rules about that.

The bullets that struck RFK did not come from the gun that Sirhan Sirhan allegedly possessed.

This is insane.

Wait a second, and this guy's still in prison?

Yes, not a match.

This is why there's all this conversation.

This is why they released the records.

There is no chain of custody on the gun, so this evidence was poorly collected, poorly maintained.

And as I mentioned, the LAPD crime library also, I'm sorry, I told you about the FBI destroying evidence.

Well, the LAPD crime lab destroyed 2,400 pieces of evidence three weeks before the trial even started.

Oh my gosh.

I was like, it's not even like he was found guilty and then they were like, okay, let's get rid of it.

They didn't even let a trial happen?

2,400 pieces of evidence.

How did he get away with that?

How did they do that?

Some of the theories, again, about some of these people we've talked about, was it Caesar, who was a contracted security guard.

So his full-time job was at Lockheed Martin, where he carried a security clearance.

He did moonlighting as a security guard, and he was a last-minute replacement by the hotel.

He claimed to be CIA.

So either he is CIA, or he thinks he's CIA.

Either way, he's dangerous, right?

Perhaps he was like MK Ultron into believing he was CIA.

He was posted at the kitchen, and there were complaints that there wasn't sufficient security in the kitchen, because there were just too many randos hanging about.

So he's a security guard whose job is to protect the kitchen, and everyone's like, why is the kitchen so unprotected?

He thought Kennedy was going to, quote, sell the country down the road to the commies or minorities like his brother did, end quote.

He pulled his weapon, but he says he was carrying a 38, not a 22 caliber gun.

He then sold his gun within months of the shooting.

Of course he did.

Very suspicious.

He tried to allege that he had sold it before the assassination, but we found paper records that indicate that he actually sold it on September 6th.

So after he denied shooting his weapon that day, but witnesses report seeing the security firing a gun, and he was standing to the right and directly behind Kennedy, which matches exactly where the bullets come from.

So in pictures, this guy had the perfect position.

He killed him.

Yep.

He failed a polygraph.

He requested not to be called to testify.

And in fact, he did not testify.

But again, he was physically closest to RFK.

So how did he?

Oh my God.

You have to testify.

So RFK Jr., he believes that Sirhan fired shots, like again, these two shots maybe.

So he had a gun, he fired shots, but he's not the one who actually.

We needed the Pats.

So Caesar lives in the Philippines now, and he actually told RFK Jr., I'm happy to talk to you for the low, low price of $25,000.

And so RFK Jr.

I mean, I feel like that's not that much.

That doesn't seem like that much, yeah.

Also though, it's just a dick move.

Like you're like, I just want to know what happened to my dead dad.

And they're like, well, I'll tell you, because I was there, but only if you pay me $25,000.

$25,000.

Yeah, but like you shouldn't have to pay anything to give someone some closure and some answer.

No, I agree, but $25,000, I think it might have seemed like that much.

I think it was a principal thing.

I think RFK was like, he was set, he was at a go, and then he was like, on principle, I'm not going, so I can write you a check and you can lie to me.

Right, well, that's true, that's valid.

Okay, and then we have Scott Enyart.

He was a photographer who was taking pictures in the pantry during the shooting.

The police confiscated all of his film, and then they told him, we never took your film on what you're talking about.

Oh my God.

He got a lawyer who was able to return some of the photos, but none of the photos that occurred during the shooting were returned to him.

No, right.

He was standing behind Caesar, so theoretically, if the LAPD was correct in their version of events, then we would want to see these pictures because it would clear Caesar as the suspect.

But they don't want to clear Caesar.

But they don't want to clear Caesar, so they've hidden the photos from us.

This is insane.

Missing.

Okay.

And destroyed now?

We don't know.

We don't know where they went.

They never gave him back to him.

Then I mentioned, people kept talking about the woman in the polka dot dress.

Because remember I mentioned that this woman in this polka dot dress maybe was hanging out with him, made him the cup of coffee, was the one who got the gun.

Do you think she drugged him with the coffee?

Oh.

Well, we have multiple witnesses who reported this.

That's why he can't remember what happened?

There were multiple witnesses who saw this woman in a polka dot dress.

And there was a campaign volunteer who was sitting on the fire escape to get some air, just kind of outside the hotel.

And she said that she saw this girl who was in a white dress with black polka dots, light skin, dark hair and a pixie cut and a quote funny nose that was very Bob Hope or Richard Nixon-esque.

It's like very specific.

Yeah, that is specific.

I don't know who Bob Hope is.

He was like the USO guy.

So she said that this female pastor with two Hispanic men and then later the female and one of the men came out.

She claimed that after hearing what she thought was backfiring cars, the woman and a man ran by and the woman said, we shot him, we shot him.

And then this witness said, what are you talking about?

Who did you shoot?

And they said, Senator Kennedy.

She says, both men were short.

The one who went in and came out was five, five, 23 years old, all of complexion, black hair, gold sweater, Mexican American.

And this witness was Mexican American.

So she's like, I think I can identify a Mexican American.

The other man who went in but did not come out, Sirhan Sirhan, perhaps, was 23, five foot three with curly bushy hair and light colored clothes.

And she said, when she saw a picture of Sirhan Sirhan in the paper, she was like, that's him.

That's the man I told you about.

Yeah.

But she said that she was questioned.

And David Morales, who was a CIA agent, kind of questioned her and bullied her into changing her story.

And we have all this on tape until finally she goes, you know what, whatever you want me to say, I'll say.

So we kind of bullied me into shutting up about this, but now she's come back out and she's talking about it again.

And this CIA agent, David Morales, was heard drunkenly telling his friends, quote, I was in Dallas when we got that motherfucker, and I was in Los Angeles when we got the little bastard.

Oh, my God.

So was he part of the cover up?

A CIA agent.

It sounds like it.

Covering up the witness.

Yeah, 100%.

And we also had a couple who saw the same scene that this person described, and they found a police report, but it was never investigated.

And we have about 10 people in total who reported seeing Sirhan and this lady in the polka dot dress, but no one has ever been able to identify the polka dot dress.

OK, so there's a 23-year-old woman named Kathy Fulmer who did come forward, and she was like, I was at the hotel, I was in a polka dot dress.

She committed suicide a week after this.

My God.

Oh my goodness.

And then we have a bunch of other people, like the Valerie Schulte, LAPD's like, this is the woman who was in the dress.

She was a 22-year-old white female with blonde hair.

Her dress was lime green with yellow polka dots.

Like she was on crutches.

She was on crutches because she'd broken her leg.

Like none of this matches.

And like you would spot somebody with crutches.

Yes.

Like that would have stood out to you.

That would have been why you recognize them.

So anyway, there's like dozens of people that like, oh, this could be, but not one of them really sounds like what these witnesses described.

Right.

Okay.

So again, I know this is kind of all over the place, but kind of where I was going with this and kind of what the theory is about the conspiracy is that Sirhan was MK Ultrad.

Because again, he has no recollection of the assassination or the aftermath.

And his lawyers actually accuse the CIA of hypnotizing him.

We have declassified documents that reveal the CIA was monitoring RFK.

And there were three operatives at the hotel that day.

One of whom was David Morales.

And remember, we talked about how maybe the CIA took out JFK because they couldn't control him.

And so people like the same could be said for MLK Jr.

and RFK.

Well, yeah.

They were going, yeah.

And again, we have talked.

You mean there's a narrative that the government wants to push?

And yeah.

And if you get in the way, they're just going to take you out.

Take you out.

So Operation Artichoke was a covert CIA program that predated NKUltra.

And it was primarily focused on research and developing methods of mind control, interrogation techniques, and behavior manipulation manipulation.

It began in the early 1950s around the same time the CIA was exploring the use of LSD and other drugs for potential intelligence gathering purposes.

The operation was designed to study the use of hypnosis, drugs like LSD, and other psychological techniques to extract information from individuals and potentially even control their behavior.

One of the key objectives was to investigate, are you ready for it?

I'm ready.

Can an individual be made to perform an assassination involuntarily or under the influence of artichoke against a prominent politician or if necessary, an American official and...

Are you kidding me?

That does not sound like exactly what could have happened.

Are you kidding me?

Exactly what could have happened.

That's insane.

There's also a theory that the polka dot dress girl could have been a sex worker who, like, I'm sorry, Kait, you thought maybe there was some drugging of the coffee.

Right.

That's the theory.

So we have Operation Midnight Climax, which was a covert CIA operation that took place in the 50s and the 60s, which again was kind of part of MKUltra.

And it involved setting up safe houses in San Francisco and New York where CIA agents secretly lured unsuspecting men, often using prostitutes.

The individuals were unknowingly dosed with LSD while their actions and behavior were observed through one-way mirrors and hidden cameras.

Oh my God.

The goal of the operation was to study the effects of LSD and other drugs on human behavior, often without consent or knowledge of the participants.

It was part of a broader series of experiments the CIA conducted to explore methods of mind control, brainwash, and interrogation during the Cold War.

And it was the secret for many years.

And then it kind of came out when we learned about MKUltra.

You know, we kind of discovered this and everyone's like, gosh, this is so controversial and unethical.

So, when Sirhan Sirhan was arrested, he was described as having dilated pupils.

Consistent with LSD, maybe.

Is he on drugs?

Yeah, that's the thought.

Did he was, he was like, man, I'm drunk.

Maybe somebody drugged him when he was drinking his Tom Collins, I don't know, but this girl goes, let me help you, let me go help, let me make you a cup of coffee.

Gets dosed in his coffee, and then he doesn't know what the fuck is happening.

Okay.

This is suspicious.

They discovered some journal entries of his, just sort of like, RFK must die, RFK must die.

Oh my God.

Makes me think of like The Simpsons, you know?

Yes.

But these journal entries, people are like, they look like rants that were maybe made under hypnosis.

So was he being like repetitively hypnotized when he was getting home?

To hate RFK.

Or when he was doing all this crazy religious, oh my God, hypnotic alchemy shit?

This is like Hunger Games, the sequel, when they made PETA mind, like...

The Tracker Jackers.

Yeah, they made him obsessively hate Katniss, so that he would try to kill her.

Yeah.

Sounds very familiar.

I think this is real because of Hunger Games.

So J Edgar Hoover, we've talked about in the past as well.

J.

Edgar Hoover reportedly said that John Mahoe had this...

This had John Mahoe written all over it, but I'm powerless to do anything about it.

Because remember, if we go back to our MLK episode, they were blackmailing J.

Edgar Hoover.

Right.

They knew all about his secret life.

He apparently admitted to being involved.

The theory involves that Mahoe and Don Nixon, who was Richard Nixon's brother, were in cahoots, and they recruited Caesar, that security guard, and multiple witnesses who report they admitted to this in social circles.

Mahoe had ties to the owner of the racetrack that Sirhan Sirhan worked at as a jockey.

So did he get the owner to pick him out a candidate?

Was he like, I need somebody that I can hypnotize, and I can use in my assassination plot?

And he's like, well, I got this jockey over here who, because the deal was, Sirhan Sirhan was walking, his job as a jockey was to walk the horses around the track.

And so he does that every day for months.

And then one day they said, you know what, you're ready.

Get up on this horse, race around the track.

So of course, the first day he ever rides a horse, he gets bucked off, he hits his head on the metal railing and then spent three months recovering from that TBI in the hospital.

But if you look at his medical records, his medical records claim he was only in the hospital for one hour, got some stitches and was discharged.

So where was he for the missing three months of his life?

Being hypnotized.

Being brainwashed.

Oh my God.

And then we have William Bryan, who was heavily involved in MK Ultra.

He had a private practice for sex therapy.

And he would exploit and sleep with his female patients.

So he's a real problem.

And he was actually temporarily disbarred.

He told two sex workers that he had hypnotized Sirhan Sirhan to kill RFK.

And he also bragged about deprogramming the Boston Strangler, which we're going to talk about in another episode and say the Boston Strangler.

But again, if we go back, I was telling you about these ramblings of like, RFK must die.

In his ramblings in Sirhan Sirhan's journal with these ramblings about RFK must die, DeSalvo was jotted down a few times.

And who was DeSalvo?

The alleged Boston Strangler.

So people theorize that William Bryan might have been bragging about DeSalvo while he had Sirhan under hypnosis, like, I'm such a badass, look, I deprogrammed this.

Because how is this ending up in his notes?

So anyway, it's just like, it's all kind of...

One giant web.

So that's pretty much the conspiracy.

I feel like Sirhan, Sirhan, Sirhan, Sirhan, Duran Duran was definitely under some influence, but I don't think his gunshots killed RFK.

Definitely two guns in the room.

Definitely was not a one man job.

Definitely was preplanned.

Definitely was covered up by...

And most definitely covered up.

The LAPD and the FBI.

Yeah.

The hand in the face guy.

That is crazy.

Yeah, like I said, the RFK Jr.

Do you think Sirhan, Sirhan pulled out his gun because he heard shots?

Do you think he did it out of defense?

Or did the other guy shoot because he heard shots?

Did Caesar shoot in response to Sirhan, Sirhan's shots?

I don't know why he went and got...

I guess you would have to think he was hypnotized and manipulated to go get this gun, to show up with a gun, right?

Oh, yeah.

But I guess that's the theory.

So then he showed up and they mind controlled him to pull out his gun, but it was all just a cover to distract people from Caesar who was just killing him.

Pew pew?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah, or maybe the mind control was like, when you hear gun shots, you pull out your gun.

Okay, maybe there was a trigger.

Yeah.

I feel like there's always a trigger.

Yeah, maybe when the lights flash or something.

When you get a cup of coffee, you pull out your gun.

Yeah, something like that.

Oh my God.

Like Pavlov.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Pavlov.

Yeah, Pavlov.

Pavlovian Pavlov, yeah.

Well, I think a couple of future conspiracies for us to talk about the Kennedys, maybe more in depth, but just some interesting facts I have for you that sounds like you already kind of know some of this.

But Kennedy, RFK, had an older brother, Joseph Jr., and he had seven younger siblings, Rosemary Kathleen, Eunice, Patricia, Robert, Jean, and Ted.

So in 1969, let's just talk about some of these siblings, okay?

In 1969, Senator Ted Kennedy was driving a car with a 28-year-old woman when the car went off a bridge and into a pond on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts.

Do you know it?

No.

Okay.

I want you to pronounce it for me.

It's Native American.

Kennedy managed to escape from the car, but she was trapped inside.

She drowned, and he did not report the accident until hours later, leading to public criticism about his actions.

He's probably drunk.

Yeah, of course, and doing something he shouldn't have been doing with the young girl.

Young lady.

Yeah.

The incident raised serious questions about his conduct and his response to the tragedy, though it was not determined that he directly caused her death.

He later pled guilty to leave in the scene of an accident and was sentenced to two months in jail, but he did not serve time.

Then we had Rosemary.

What do you know about Rosemary?

It's really sad.

They kept her hidden.

Rosemary had some mental disabilities.

She has some developmental issues, a little slow, and so her dad approved a lobotomy for her.

So she underwent a lobotomy that left her completely dependent.

If you look at the pre and post, pre-lobotomy, she was able to walk, talking.

She was doing things.

She was just slower than the average child.

Then post-lobotomy, she was pretty much hospitalized for the rest of her life, and they stopped talking about her.

Oh my gosh, that's awful.

Is she still alive?

I think she's dead now.

Yeah.

She died at the age of 86 in 2005.

She had developmental delays and then she was becoming really like irritable and difficult.

And so her dad got her a lobotomy when she was 23, and then she was unable to speak or care for her.

So sad.

And she had to live in an institution in Wisconsin.

And initially, I don't know that they said she was dead, but they did, yeah, like no one visited.

Yeah.

And then I think that later on, people start to feel bad and her, and her siblings came to visit her and that kind of thing.

Well, a lot of the thing with the Kennedys is that-

Oh, here we go.

It's a little bit like the Royals, right?

Like they wanted to present publicly a very certain way.

And so having a child who didn't fit that picture was kind of a no-no.

Yeah, but what's really sad is that that she was born during the Spanish Influenza.

And so the doctors were like busy when her mom went into labor.

And they said, just keep your legs closed.

And so did they deprive her of oxygen?

And they sent her to deliver the BS.

Ad-osic brain injury.

Keep your legs closed, girl.

And then we had Joseph Kennedy.

Do they still do lobotomies?

They don't, right?

No.

Joseph Kennedy was a military pilot and his plane exploded in 1944, killing him at the age of 29.

Just kind of a sad tragedy.

Kennedy Earths.

And then we are gonna cover at some point Marilyn Monroe because allegedly JFK was having an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

Allegedly president.

Allegedly RFK was having an affair with Marilyn Monroe.

I mean, yep.

If you could get it with Marilyn, good for you.

So were they part of the conspiracy of her death?

Happy birthday.

I think she definitely, wasn't it like part of the mob?

Like wasn't the mob involved?

That's gonna be another episode.

Yeah.

That's gonna be another episode.

Okay.

So you guys are not buying that Sirhan Sirhan just walked in with a gun, not peonied 13 times with a gun that only had a gun.

They're hot for that stuff.

And the bullets that struck RFK did not match the gun that Sirhan had.

Yeah.

No one's buying it.

All right.

Well, hopefully we'll get some information when they release the records.

After we finish going through the tens of thousands of JFK records, we can move on to the RFK records that really get to the bottom of this one.

We're mostly destroyed.

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Yeah, Kait, what should the people do?

Yeah, the people, if they like this episode, take out your phone right now, text your friends, choose three people that like the Kennedys, and share our episode with them.

And then after that, you should scroll on down, leave us a five-star review, share us on your social media accounts, leave us some comments, interact with us on Instagram, and yeah.

Sounds good.

And we will see you, we're gonna have a nice, lighthearted, fun one next week.

So we'll see you.

Yeah, get ready for it.

See you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday.

See ya.