Is Gabby Petito's Killer Still Out There?

**Discussion begins at 5:00**

Gabby Petito was born and raised in Blue Point, New York and was the oldest of 7 children in a blended family.  While attending Bayport Blue Point High School, she met Brian Laundrie.  After graduating in 2017, they reconnected and began dating in 2019.  Eventually, they decided to move to Northpoint, Fl to live with Brian's parents.  In 2020 they got engaged, and Gabby purchased a Ford Transit Connect - which the couple converted into a sleeper van.  On July 2, 2021 they set off from New York on a 4 month roadtrip through national parks.  Gabby was hoping to take off as a content creator, and was vlogging the journey on her YouTube and Instagram accounts about #vanlife.  On August 12, 2021 police responded to a 911 call in Moab, Utah. The caller had reported seeing a man attacking a girl in a van driving by.  The couple was separated and the police felt that Brian was the victim and no charges were pressed.  They sent him to a domestic abuse hotel for the night, and she stayed in the van. The couple then proceeded on their trip. On August 25 Gabby made a final post to Instagram and then stopped responding to texts or phone calls.  On September 11, Gabby's mother filed a missing persons report in Suffolk County, NY.  When police went to the Laundries as part of a wellness check, they learned that Brian had returned home in Gabby’s van, without her.  But the Laundries had already hired an attorney and refused to cooperate with the police investigation.  The investigation let them to Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming, where Gabby's phone was last used.  On September 19, 3 weeks after the investigation had begun, her body was found in the park.  After the discovery of her body, a search warrant was issued on the Laundrie home, and it is then that we learn Brian Laundrie had disappeared days prior, last seen going on a hike.  A month later, on October 20, Brian Laundrie’s parents discover his body in Carlton Reserve, a nature preserve near their home.  With him, they find a backpack that contains a journal with a partial confession – Brian claimed that he had killed Gabby, but only because she had a freak accident and was suffering and asked him to put her out of his misery.  The coroner eventually ruled Brian Laundrie’s cause of death to be suicide by GSW.  However, a number of inconsistencies in the crime scene, and his parent’s unwillingness to assist in the search for Gabby Petito, have led many online to speculate that Brian Laundrie is not actually dead, and that his parents helped him fake his death to cover it up.

Transcript

Hey, guys.

Hey.

Hello.

Welcome back.

Welcome back.

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the 3SchemeQueens.

Where we talk about your favorite conspiracies.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Welcome.

If you have never been here, you're welcome.

If you have been here, you know the deal.

Welcome back.

We have a we got a shout out today.

Shout out.

We've got Esso.

Shout out to Kathy.

Hi, Kathy.

For buying us some cups of coffee.

Thank you, Kathy.

Do you know Kathy also reached out to let us know.

She answered a Colleen question.

An answer to the question.

What happens after modern art?

Yeah.

After modern art comes contemporary art.

Oh.

Such a simple answer.

But she says, don't worry, it's confusing.

Lots of, quote, schools of art.

I'll tell you what, if it's not broke.

Do you know what else Kathy messaged us?

What?

In reference to last week's episode on the dead Internet.

Yeah.

Her friend.

Oh, I forgot about this.

Kevin.

Kevin.

Not to be confused with Kevin the dog.

Yeah.

Who's Kevin the dog?

Shout out Jillian.

Jillian's dog.

Oh, I know Kevin.

Kevin.

Her friend Kevin is responsible for creating Clippy when she was working at Microsoft.

That's crazy.

That is so cool.

That's literal flex.

I don't know.

Also, you don't think he could have been a little bit more creative with the name?

This is why I think Megan's an Enneagram Five, because Megan has a insatiable thirst for knowledge.

And are you ready for it?

Because whenever anyone else is doing a podcast, Megan has also looked it up and come with facts.

I try not to.

I know, but you always have to have facts.

Sometimes I don't know if you guys are going to pull a...

Okay, I didn't actually research anything, but I'm just going to wing this on Wikipedia.

Like, so then...

That's the whole reason.

When have I ever not given you enough info besides Elvis?

I know, but it's not because I'm like this incontestable thirst for knowledge.

It's like, okay, if I don't do this, are we going to stare at each other?

It's really a lack of...

When have we ever just stared at each other?

It's a lack of your follow-through.

Intentionally, I don't want to over-research because I don't want to have a lot to say because I want you to have your moment, but I want to have enough to say that when you guys go, so yeah, maybe Elvis is a...

Is a picture in Arkansas.

That's my whole conspiracy period.

I have something to say.

That was the whole conspiracy, though.

Okay, well, I just feel like it's always like a...

I don't know.

I just...

I don't know if you're an 8.

You are...

That's another aspect of Megan loving aggressively.

So is it time for our...

Drink check!

Drink check!

Today we're having Mersolet Chardonnay, 30-year anniversary.

Wow.

Happy birthday.

It's second glass.

Yeah, it's very smooth and buttery.

Yeah.

You like it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You like it?

I like it.

Colleen's is on a lot of ice.

Yeah, as usual.

Yeah, as per usual and like half drink.

Today she was like-

Oh yeah, Megan roasted.

She texted us earlier, she goes, I'm wired today, guys.

I've had three cups of coffee.

I did.

So then she gets here and I go, question, did you finish even one of those cups of coffee?

No.

Three of them are sitting on my desk right now.

Yeah.

I realize.

You probably had one cup of coffee.

I am the pack rat of the office.

How does that make you feel?

Not bad, because I know where everything is.

It's that, what did we say her style was?

Oh, the bee.

It's that bee style of...

Well, my manager was like, why don't you throw some of that paperwork away because you have it all scanned.

And I was like, but what if I lose the scans?

No.

If I lived in the Great Depression, I would be sleeping on my money.

Like, it would be in my mattress.

Like, the scans are...

It would be in your fireplace.

In my walls.

The scans are probably in the cloud.

Whoa.

Don't talk about the cloud.

All right, guys.

So today, we're kind of covering a hot topic.

It's hot right now.

Did either of you...?

I followed the whole thing on TikTok.

I know it well.

Have either of you had a chance to watch the Gabby Petito documentary on Netflix?

Did not watch the documentary.

No.

Didn't know that there was one.

That is our recommended content this week.

You guys should definitely check it out.

It's three episodes.

Today, we're going to talk about Gabby Petito, but specifically the conspiracy theory surrounding her murderer, Brian Laundrie, who was your boyfriend.

This is where I didn't know it was a conspiracy, because I thought he did it.

Yes, that's not the conspiracy.

The conspiracy theory is that he is not really dead, and that his parents helped fake his death.

Yeah, I believe that, actually.

I have heard of this.

So let me give you a little summary.

Gabby's in the garden.

No, he's in the garden.

We found Gabby's butt.

We'll get there.

But you're on a TikTok track.

Yeah.

Gabby was in the National Park.

Yeah.

So let me start with the brief summary, and then we'll get into it.

OK.

So Gabby Petito was born and raised in Blue Point, New York.

She was the oldest of seven children in a blended family.

While attending Bayport Blue Point High School, she met Brian Laundrie.

And after graduating in 2017, they reconnected and began dating in 2019.

Eventually, they decided to move to North Point, Florida to live with Laundrie's parents.

I think initially, they were like staying in a rental property.

And then a couple months before this happened, they actually moved in to the house with the Laundrie parents.

How old were they?

22 and 23.

OK.

There was reportedly some tension between Gabby and the parents, although now they say that's not the case, right?

They were all one big family.

Yeah, of course.

They were all great.

In 2020, they got engaged, and Petito purchased a Ford Transit Connect, which the couple converted into a sleeper van.

On July 2nd, 2021, they set off from New York on a four-month road trip through National Parks.

Gabby was hoping to take off as a content creator and was vlogging the journey on her YouTube and Instagram accounts about hashtag van life.

On August 12th, police responded to a 911 call in Moab, Utah.

The caller had reported seeing a man attacking a girl in a van driving by.

The couple was separated and the police felt that Brian was the victim and no charges were pressed.

They sent him to a domestic abuse hotel for the night.

She stayed in the van.

They then proceeded on their trip.

On August 25th, Gabby made a final post to Instagram and then stopped responding to texts or phone calls.

A few days later, her parents received a text message from Gabby in which she refers to her grandfather by his given name, Stan, which made the mom suspicious.

She attempted multiple times to reach out to Gabby.

On September 11th, her mother filed a missing persons report in Suffolk County, New York where they were from.

When police went to the Laundries as part of a wellness check, they learned that Brian had returned home in Gabby's van without her.

But the Laundries had already hired an attorney and refused to cooperate with the police investigation.

Now, Gabby Petito, as we know, is a cute white blonde girl.

She's a heavy social media presence, so this story really went viral and took off, and now everybody is looking for them.

The search led them to Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming, where her phone was last used.

On September 19th, three weeks after the investigation had begun, her body was found in the park.

After the discovery of her body, a search warrant was issued on the Laundrie home, and it is then that his parents report that he had gone hiking a week prior and nobody had seen him since.

A month later, on October 20th, Brian Laundrie's parents discover his body in Carlton Reserve, a nature preserve near their home.

With him, they find a backpack that contains a journal with a partial confession, Brian claiming that he had killed Gabby, but only because she'd had a freak accent, was suffering, and asked him to put her out of his misery.

The coroner eventually ruled Brian Laundrie's cause of death to be suicide by gunshot wound.

However, his parents' unwillingness to assist in the investigation and a number of inconsistencies in the crime scene have led many online to speculate that Brian Laundrie is not actually dead, and that his parents helped him fake his death to cover it up.

Oh my goodness.

So what do you guys think?

Have you heard this conspiracy?

Yeah, because he was MIA for a minute.

She was reported missing.

They started really thinking it was him.

And then he went MIA.

And people kept seeing him, or kept seeing the parents bring food to the garden.

The garden, yes, the garden is a theory.

And like an underground shelter in the garden is the theory.

Not what I thought.

I thought he was in the woods, and he was at night coming, getting his food, and then going back in the woods like a little girl.

I don't think they back up to the garden.

They had like a fenced in backyard, and they were flying drones.

We'll get to that.

They were flying drones, and people were like investigating the garden and thought that he was there.

I don't trust his parents at all.

Yeah, I agree.

His parents.

Why did they lawyer up so fast?

We'll talk about that.

How about you?

Have you heard this theory, Kait?

No.

Okay.

No, no, no.

I have heard that like, that he might have faked his death.

That's what I've heard.

You believe it?

I want you to convince me.

Yeah, convince us.

Convince me.

Although I believe you.

Well, do you guys want me to tell you what I think to start with?

Yeah.

She thinks he's dead.

Yeah.

I actually am not buying, I'm going to preface this episode with the fact that I am not buying this theory.

You and all your true crime experience.

Yeah.

I will tell you why I'm not buying this theory.

All right.

Now, I'm going to give you a more thorough breakdown of the timeline and tell you where these conspiracy theories started from and why people think this.

Right.

And then whether or not I can disprove them.

The timeline that we now have with all our information.

So we know if we go back, they had taken off on this cross-country trip that was initially in before months, eventually I think they wanted to prolong it.

But they were on this trip.

And then on August 12th, Utah police, as I mentioned, investigate a domestic violence report against Brian by witnesses who reported he was slapping Gabby.

We now have body cam evidence.

And based on that, it's very clear that they sort of, she was very emotional.

She was talking about her mental health issues.

Right.

He was kind of playing it off like, you know, she's crazy.

And the cops definitely sided with him.

And then they report, they said this seemed to be more of a mental health crisis than a domestic violence issue.

She was found dead.

And so they, you know, they both were like, you know what, we love each other, we're engaged.

We didn't want anybody to be arrested.

Yeah.

They had, there was funding for domestic violence victims to stay in hotels.

And so they used that funding and they put Brian Laundrie in this DV hotel room for the night.

She sleeps in her, in the van.

And that's kind of the end of this, this event.

But it just kind of goes to show.

Something got missed.

That, yes, there's probably a pattern of behavior here.

They spend the night apart, they get back together, they kind of continue on their travels.

Brian actually flies back to Florida for about a week because it sounds like they wanted to extend their trip.

And so they were trying to get more money and they happened to have like a storage unit full of their things.

They wanted to clear it out, save the money.

So they kind of separate for a week and then he flies back to Utah to meet her.

What we know now happened is that on August 27th, they were seen together at a restaurant in Jackson, Wyoming, where a witness said there was a commotion.

So I've heard this as like they were fighting, but it sounds like actually what the, the witnesses reported is that Brian was made, they're probably getting kicked out of the restaurant.

Brian was upset.

He was yelling at the staff.

He was being kind of verbally abusive to the employees.

And Gabby was crying and like apologized on his behalf and trying to de-escalate it.

Right.

They leave.

They're seen about an hour later at the Whole Foods.

And that's the creepy video that we've all seen.

That's the last time she's seen on video as I'm walking through the Whole Foods.

Gabby also called her ex-boyfriend, Jackson at one point, but he didn't answer.

It is important to note that in the Netflix documentary, Jackson, the ex-boyfriend, he's one of the people interviewed.

And he does say that they were in contact.

And she had told him previously that she was planning to leave Brian.

And she was just trying to figure out how to do it.

At 8:32 p.m., Gabby was moving around files on their computer.

So we know she was alive at that point, August 27th, 8:30 p.m.

Now fast forward two days, August 29th.

Brian makes repeated calls to his parents saying that Gabby was quote, gone, and that he needed help.

And then they lured up.

Yep.

So they claim it in a deposition that initially he called his mom, they chatted for about an hour, everything seemed normal.

It was like a normal catch up phone call, but that he sounded kind of weird at the end of the call.

So Roberta, his mother, told her husband that he should call and check on Brian.

So when Brian's dad Christopher called him, Brian was upset and frantic and he just kept saying, Gabby's gone, Gabby's gone, and that he needed a lawyer.

So what's the family do?

They hire him a lawyer.

They claim that they didn't know she was dead when they hired this lawyer.

But yeah, but why are you getting your son a lawyer if he's saying Gabby's gone?

Yeah, why did you drop $25,000 on a retainer for a lawyer?

The mom was like, I don't know, I thought maybe there was like a domestic dispute or something, but no one asked any more questions.

They just were like, Gabby's gone, I need a lawyer, and they get a lawyer, okay?

Sounds like they need their son to be here.

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Oh, I mean, the parents just get worse.

Yeah.

So anyway, without getting too into the weeds with the cell phone records, we do know that there were multiple-hour-plus conversations between Brian and his parents on August 28th and August 29th, and that they immediately hire him a lawyer.

The same day, he starts working on setting up an alibi.

So...

Of course.

There were a couple, again, who were in the Netflix documentary, who picked him up hitchhiking in the park, and one of them reported that he had two phones on him, and he appeared to be texting between them.

And when you look at the texting records, it's very instantaneous, like back and forth between these two phones.

And so we know now that he was setting up this alibi.

So he texts from his phone, hey, honey, just calling to let you know I made it to Coulter Bay.

I think the campground is still a little ways up the road.

I'm gonna go check it out.

Let me know when you're on your way.

No rush.

Can't wait for you to see the mountains across the water.

So again, he's sitting in something like everything's still fine and she's still alive.

He then transfers $700 from Gabby's account using Zelle to himself.

Using like her phone?

Correct.

He starts to head home.

On August 30th, Gabby's mom receives her last text from Gabby and the text message read, quote, can you help Stan?

I just keep getting voicemails and missed calls.

So Gabby's mom is like, this is weird because Stan is Gabby's grandpa.

She doesn't call him Stan.

She calls him grandpa.

Right.

So why is she texting me about Stan and not grandpa?

So she's like, this is weird and I haven't heard from her for a couple of days.

So she starts reaching out to other friends and family.

And actually, I think my big takeaway from the Netflix documentary is that like, this is like such a healthy extended family.

Like her parents separated pretty quickly after she was born and they both married other people.

But they co-parent so well.

So it sounds like she reaches out, the mom reaches out to like the other co-parents, no one's heard from her, she's reaching out to all the friends.

And they all know her usual behavior.

Yes, and this is very out of character.

They really know her and they talk to her often.

So once she realized like none of her friends or family have heard from her, then she decides to report her missing.

So September 11th, Gabby's parents report her missing.

And so as a result, police get sent in Florida down to the Laundrie residence to question Brian.

Police never see Brian.

They did note that her van was in the driveway.

And since it was registered to Gabby, they were able to impound it.

So there's videos where like they're talking to Brian's parents in the doorway, but Brian's parents are like, he's here, but we have nothing to say to you.

Talk to our lawyer.

That's crazy.

So they invoke their Fifth Amendment rights, refuse to talk to the police.

And so this is kind of where the conspiracy theory starts.

Like why were these parents so unwilling to help find Gabby?

Like when Gabby's parents are reaching out to them and they're just like, we know nothing, our son is here and we're not gonna talk to anybody.

Yeah, that's weird.

The police start investigating, and you can see too on the documentary when you have all of the police camera information, they all clearly are like, this is really weird.

Right.

So the police start investigating, they find out that Brian had returned to his parents' home alone in Florida on September 1st.

He had driven Gabby's van home and parked in the driveway, but she was not with him.

So while Gabby's not been reported missing, but her mom's looking for her, they just go on a family vacation, they go on a little camping trip 75 miles away, the whole fam damn, his sister comes along.

It's like interesting timing, you know?

Very interesting.

Let's just pretend we're one big happy family while your girlfriend's missing.

My girlfriend is literally dead.

Yeah.

September 17th, police get an anonymous tip that something odd is going on at the Laundrie home.

So when they arrive, Brian's parents say that he's been hiking for several days.

And at this point that he's just a person of interest, we don't even have proof, proof that a crime has been committed, we're just looking for Gabby.

Looking for Gabby.

Nonetheless, law enforcement at this point is like, again, this is really weird.

They gotta start looking for him.

But Gabby is finally found on September 19th.

The breakthrough actually came because-

Hikers found her, right?

I thought.

Well, so there were other vloggers who were filming like their drive-thru tea-

Oh, I remember.

National Park.

And they happened to have video of her van.

And so they pointed that out.

They pointed where he dropped her or whatever.

Correct.

And then again, we had a couple of these people came forward who said they offered him a ride when he was hitchhiking.

They find her in this undeveloped camping area lying on her side in a fetal position, like appeared to be staged.

And her cause of death was ruled to be homicide due to blunt force trauma and strangulation.

So what was the time difference between that original domestic violence incident in this?

August 12th and well, she's found on September 19th.

That's sad.

Was she like, and it had been like three weeks that she'd been dead.

Yes, it was remains.

That's so sad.

The day after Gabby is found, they execute a search warrant on the Laundries house.

But again, Brian is missing.

So his parents say, you know, he went hiking a week ago.

We haven't heard from him since.

They initially said he'd gone hiking on September 14th, but later they changed their story.

So again, this whole lack of cooperation, I think is really where this theory started from.

Yep, so what we learn is that he left the house on September 13th at the backpack, but he left his phone and wallet behind.

He took the family car to Carleton Reserve.

That night, when he didn't return, his dad went to the park to look for him.

The following day, both parents go back to the park to look for him, and they found their Mustang in the parking area with an abandoned vehicle notice.

And then again, the following day, they go back to get the car.

Where are they going to get the car?

I don't know.

Okay, all this happened.

He still is not reported missing by his parents.

That is so weird.

Because they know where he is.

The hunt doesn't really pick up until September 23rd, when the FBI announced that he had a federal arrest warrant for financial crimes.

So the arrest warrant was really just related to him using Gabby's accounts to charge over $1,000 across state lines.

Oh my gosh.

Because they probably didn't have proof he killed her yet.

Yeah.

I think that the arrest warrant was in progress before they found the body.

It was just like, we got to get him for something.

We got to get him in here so we can talk to him, basically.

Right.

So in October 20, his remains were found at Carlton Reserve.

Now part of what makes this so sus is that he had been missing now for about a month, right?

And no one can find him.

And then his parents decide to join the search party.

And within an hour, they find his bag.

That's ridiculous.

That's weird.

And within an hour of finding the bag, they find his remains.

So everyone's like, wait a second, he's been missing for a month and his parents join after one month or one month.

They try to look for him at an hour.

So this is the rumor.

Okay.

I think to clarify, I do think that the dad at least had gotten in on the search a little bit earlier.

But the park that he was found was actually underwater.

It had been flooded by 30 feet of water.

So the park was closed and no one could search the park.

So the day that the park re-opened for searching is the day that the Laundries were like, we're going to join this search.

They walk about a mile from where he parked his car.

Now again, this is a 40,000 square foot, sorry, 40,000 square mile park.

So they get in, they start walking.

They're like, this is where you like to walk.

And as they make it about a mile down the path, they find the backpack.

So it's not really like this area had been searched for a month and no one had found it.

So, I mean, it does sound sus, but maybe a little bit less suspicious than we all think.

But also you haven't heard from your son in a month and you're not worried?

That is so-

I mean, I cannot, I'm gonna try to debunk a lot of stuff, but I cannot explain away the bizarre behavior.

Yeah.

That's weird.

And so I guess the other thing that people think is like, so Christopher Laundrie, Brian's dad, he stumbles upon the backpack about 45 minutes in, like I said, so he picked it up and he carried it over to law enforcement.

So again, people are like, well, that's convenient.

He touched it.

He touched it.

Did he plant anything?

Now, there were a lot of news cameras around, and one of them did actually capture him like finding this bag and picking it up.

So I think we have evidence that he says he saw it, he didn't want something to happen when he went to get somebody.

But I think if he was like planting evidence, that would have been obvious given all of the news cameras.

Yeah.

Well, he knew where to find it though.

Like I think he planted it an hour before.

Well, it reminds me of JonBenet's dad picking her up after finding her.

Like, why?

Why did you do that?

Also though, I mean, I don't know, what would you do in that emotional moment as a parent?

I don't know.

I have no idea what I would do.

Scream.

You wouldn't be like throwing yourself on top of your kids, probably.

I would just be like...

Would definitely probably.

Like I'd be screaming, I think.

I don't think I would be touching.

I'd be screaming, yeah.

And well, with JonBenet, I'd be like, I would not want to pick up my dead child.

I don't even...

I can't even like...

So in this backpack that let's...

Before we get to the body, let me talk about this backpack that's found.

So there were a couple of items.

It was a waterproof bag.

It contained photographs of Brian and Gabby throughout the years.

There's a letter from Brian's mom, which went on to be known as the burn after reading note.

We'll talk about that.

And then there's a notebook with letters from Brian to his family members, as well as his written confession.

So if we start with his confession, his suicide note, I think he's a gaslighting narcissist.

Okay.

Obviously.

So, and I think this letter is so disingenuous.

So-

Are you gonna read it?

I'm gonna read part of it, but I'm not gonna read the whole thing, because I just think he's a dick.

But the first, it goes on for several paragraphs about how amazing Gabby was and how much he loved her and can't live without her, okay?

Then he says, and this again, this is an eight-page letter.

This is what he says happened, okay?

Rushing back to our car, trying to cross the streams before it got too dark to see, too cold.

I hear a splash and a scream.

I could barely see.

I couldn't find her for a moment.

I shouted her name.

I found her breathing heavily, gasping.

She was freezing cold.

There's a lot of illegibles here.

She was freezing cold.

The temperature had dropped to freezing, and she was soaking wet.

I carried her as far as I could from the stream toward the car, stumbling, exhausted in shock, and I knew I couldn't safely carry her.

I started a fire and spooned her as close to the heat.

She was so thin, had already been freezing too long.

I couldn't at that time realize that I should have started a fire first, but I wanted her out of the cold back to the car.

From where I started the fire, I had no idea how far the car might be, only knew it was across the creek.

When I pulled Gabby out of the water, she couldn't tell me what hurt.

She had a small bump on her forehead that eventually got larger.

Her feet hurt, her wrist hurt, but she was freezing, shaking violently.

While carrying her, she continually made sounds of pain.

Laying next to her, she said little, between violent shakes, gasping in pain, begging for an end to her pain.

She would fall asleep and I would shake her awake, fearing she couldn't close her eyes if she had a concussion.

She would wake in pain, start her whole painful cycle again, furious that I was the one waking her.

She wouldn't let me try to cross the creek, thought like me the fire would go out and her sleep and she'd freeze.

I don't know the extent of Gabby's injuries, only that she was in extreme pain.

I ended her life.

I thought it was merciful, that it was what she wanted, but I see now all the mistakes I made.

I panicked, I was in shock, but from the moment I decided to take away her pain, I knew I couldn't go on without her.

How did she fall?

Yeah, I'm confused about she.

Suddenly they were in the creek.

They were crossing a creek and he just heard her yell and splash and turned around.

So this freak accident doesn't really explain.

Right.

And then he's like, and she was, she had a knot on her head and she was just in so much pain and I had to.

End her life.

And then he talks about how he rushed home to be with his family because he knew that like he didn't have a lot of time with them and about how much he loves Gabby.

And then he ends it with, please pick up all my things.

Gabby hated people who littered.

And I'm just like, you care?

I mean, you give a fuck about Gabby?

He sounds like, okay.

Menti B.

Menti B.

Yeah.

He sounds like he's having a big, like almost like a schizophrenic, like he's making it up, but he believes it.

Well, that's what people were saying, that he's trying to retell the story in a way that like, like makes sense.

Like full personality in a way.

And he's like changing the tense, but the, the wording, the present and past tense, what does that mean?

And I think when they did investigate, like went to his room and everything after they had the search warrants, he had a lot of like really dark sketches and photos.

And he was having a mental, he had a lot of like weapons in the room.

Yeah.

He just does seem like he was.

Was he having a mental be or was he meant to be?

I mean, he's mentally ill.

I think both.

I think and the parents are aware of it.

Yes.

I probably I'm not a kid who probably experimented on animals, animals.

Yeah.

They did say that the day when they looked at his camera on the day in Grand Teton Park around the time that she was lost.

And when he went hiking and he was texting himself from back and forth to set up this alibi, he was taking a lot of photos of animal carcasses.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So no one can really, his sequence of events sounds absurd.

Yes.

Well, there's no proof I could find to say it could not have possibly happened this way.

Right.

Because again, the body had been decomposing in the woods for almost a month by the time it was found.

Right.

So they couldn't really tell if there was hypothermia on the autopsy or anything like that.

But again, we know blunt force trauma to the head and we know strangulation.

They did say that he's talking about how it was below freezing temperatures and it was actually in the high 40s that day.

Oh.

I mean, I don't know what that can really like prove that the story is not right.

But if you're cold, then you're...

You're gonna be cold no matter what.

Right.

And if you're wet.

So that's, I just think that's a bizarre sequence of events and it sounds like, yeah, given his pattern of behavior, it's probably more likely he got frustrated with her and...

Beaten her upside the head.

Then strangled her.

And then maybe she fell.

Well, I thought too, I tried to go back and find this because I thought too that when she was positioned, it was like her, that she had been positioned as though she fell, but she was like upside, like it didn't actually make sense that her head was like lower than her feet.

But when I tried to go back and fact check, I couldn't find that.

Okay.

And then I want to talk about the other letter found in the bed.

The burn-up.

The letter from his mother.

Okay.

So also with his belongings was this note.

On the outside, it said, burn after reading.

It really said that?

Yep.

And he didn't burn it?

What an idiot.

And it was written by, it was written by Roberta Laundrie, who was Brian's mom.

She wrote the letter to Brian.

Okay.

It says, tell me if you would ever write a letter this bizarre to your children.

Okay.

Burn after reading.

She says, in an accent, please.

I don't have an accent.

I knew you were going to say that.

I just want you to remember, I will always love you and I know you will always love me.

You are my boy.

Nothing can make me stop loving you.

Nothing will or could ever divide us.

No matter what we do or where we go or what we say, we will always love each other.

If you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it.

If you need to dispose of a body, I will show up with the shovel and garbage bags.

If you fly to the moon, I will be watching the skies for your reentry.

If you say you hate my guts, I will get new guts.

Remember that love is a verb, not a noun.

It's not a thing.

It's not words.

It is actions.

Watch people's actions to know if they love you, not their words.

Therefore, I am certain that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor the ruling spirits, nor things present.

Romans 8.38.

Yeah, girl.

No powers from above, no powers from below.

Nothing in the entire created world can separate our love.

Neither hostile powers or messengers of heaven nor monarchs of earth, nothing has the power to separate it.

It's really about what separates us from God's love.

That's weird.

Okay, so what do you guys think of that letter?

She definitely is assisting him.

Oh, 100%.

I'll bury the body.

Why would it not say burn after reading if she wasn't?

Do you know what I mean?

Yes.

I think the burn after reading makes it even more sus.

Like if you want to write a note to your son.

So that's the deal.

She wrote this letter to her son before he'd even gone on this road trip.

Girl.

Because they were fighting about him traveling.

Why would she put burn after reading?

Yeah.

Bingo, girl.

No.

Shut up, Roberta.

And why would she say, I'll bury a body with you?

Roberta.

I'll bring a shiv.

Where would she say about it?

Shovel.

No, I will.

You're in jail.

I will make a cake with a file in it.

If you dispose of a body, I will show up with a shovel and garbage bag.

Roberta.

Ma'am, you are an enabler.

We know you, Roberta.

You're gonna, if your son is in jail and he is guilty, you're gonna try and break him out?

You're not gonna give him a consequence?

You know, I like to pull a consequence like a parent.

I like to pull my, would you guys, let me ask you guys this question, cause I pulled my family on this.

Okay.

If I were to go to jail, would you guys come visit me?

Oh yeah.

Of course.

That was way less hesitation I got from my family.

They would, well, what did you do?

Everyone had a different answer.

That was mostly-

I would still visit you, but-

Mostly what it came down to, my brother was like, if it was like a financial crime or something, then probably.

My brother's friend was in jail, my parents went to visit him.

You just can't wear a bra.

No underwires.

Yeah.

Carrie said she would ride the bus and come visit me.

We can't give you too many things, though.

You have to know that.

If we give you too many gifts, you get beat up.

That's what my brother's friend said.

I'd give you money for the commissary.

I would too, because then you could keep that secret.

Nobody has to know how much money you have in the commissary.

And I know you would not be spending the money in an obvious way.

Also, have you not seen Orange and New Black?

You want to stay on the DL, livable, survivable DL.

And you know what I would give you?

Prison recipes.

Well, I feel like I could probably make a lot of prison.

I watched a lot of 60 days.

So much prison recipes.

Yeah, so I think I'm...

Fake Tanner out of Cheetos.

Yeah, I think I could be pretty good.

But you also have to be careful, because now it's all automated.

So when you're ordering your commissary, it's like on a big screen, like if you want to go to like a fast food restaurant.

Oh, yeah.

That's embarrassing.

And so you have to be careful, because people will just walk up and start putting things in your cart, and then they know you've got money and they got you, you know?

Well, yeah.

So you got to be cool about it.

Oh, yeah.

Anyway, I just have to say, you guys are such friends.

If there was zero hesitation, there was no, well, I just want to murder somebody.

I would be like, okay, Megan, you have a prison wife.

Who's cooking up with you?

We'd be like, and she deserved it.

Yeah.

Right.

Ride or die.

Megan, we'd be in jail with you.

Yeah.

Because I would be the one, you'd be like, Kait, I did something, and I'd be like, I guess I'm bearing a body tonight.

Yeah.

Ride or die.

No, no, no.

I wouldn't bury it.

You got to go with the chemical method and melt the bones.

Yeah.

It takes longer, but less evidence.

I'd be like, Tanner's got to eat it.

In that way, he'd be shitting it out the next day.

We digress, guys.

Now, Gabby's parents did actually release a statement.

It said, the letter is undated.

And while Roberta Laundrie has suggested it was written before Brian Laundrie and Gabby Petito left on their trip, a reasonable inference is that it was written after Gabby Petito was murdered.

So there actually was like a criminal lawsuit filed by Gabby's family against the Laundries, alleging that they knew Gabby was dead and they caused like undue emotional harm.

Oh yeah, harm.

Definitely did.

They didn't win that.

Well, they ended up settling for $3 million because nobody could prove, came down to this letter and no one-

Well, you don't settle unless you know you're guilty.

Well, no one could prove the timing of this letter.

So-

They couldn't use the half-life?

It had to have been a half-life of fingerprints on that thing.

It came down to the letter.

They settled for $3 million.

All of that goes to the Gabby Petito Foundation, but they've not seen any of that money because the Laundries say they don't have that money.

Well, I believe that.

Wait, so how do you get your money then?

I guess it's like a loan and they pay the loan.

I don't think you get the money unless they can pay.

What is the point?

They put a lot of payment plan at least.

Wait a second, what is the point in going to court if you don't get the money?

I think a lot of people don't ever actually collect on their winnings.

Yeah, on their winnings.

That's why you only sue big corporations.

That's crazy.

Or billionaires.

But again, I'm gonna get back to them being like, we don't know, we didn't have a clue that she was actually dead.

I just can't get it.

Like when he said, Gabby's gone, and you went and spent 25 grand on a lawyer, what did you think?

What else did you think was happening?

Exactly.

And so again, when deposed, his mom was like, well, maybe, I don't know, I thought maybe it could have been a domestic violence thing, but also like, so where else does domestic violence lead?

Also, I think the fact that you were like, oh, there could have been a domestic violence situation.

I just think that like, And you guarded up so fast.

Well, like, I just don't think that unless, unless you were worried about your son, I don't think most people's minds go to domestic violence.

Do you think if Bourbon Boy was like, Kate's gone, his parents' first instinct would be like, well, we got a lawyer up?

Domestic violence.

No, they would say that would probably not even be a blip on their radar.

No, they'd be like, what do you mean, Kate's gone?

Yes.

Please explain yourself.

More information.

Yeah, more details, please.

Do you think that maybe, was he taking any medications?

He said he had no medical history, was not on any medications.

Oh, he definitely has some kind of history.

Yeah, I feel like maybe he was, do you think he was using recreational drugs?

I don't know, his toxin was also negative.

Oh, when did they do that?

After he was found, but also he was like, he was boned.

So I don't know, it just said that he had no evidence of drugs in the system, but I don't know how they would actually...

But were the bones actually him?

Hair.

Yeah, so let's get to the bones.

So that's my next conversation.

Okay, but wouldn't hair, like, decompose?

Yeah.

I don't know what happened.

The next phase here is about the body.

The bones, okay?

So, not good.

So not far from the bag.

I like that song.

So after they find the bag, within an hour, they find...

A body.

The remains.

They said, quote, his belongings were still there, his clothes were still there, his shoes were still there, but he had completely decomposed all the way down to the bone.

The timing?

This was October now?

Yes, it's been a month.

So his skin and his muscles have all decomposed down to the bone.

That's what they say.

So I think something ate him.

So, well, definitely they said there was evidence that animals had scavenged him.

He had nibbled.

A little nibble.

So a month after his remains were found on November 23rd, it was confirmed that he had died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

So he was initially identified based on dental records and then eventually by DNA, but there are some inaccuracies on social media.

So going back to our conspiracy theory that we're discussing, it goes back to his identification.

Okay, so they say on social media that he was identified by his teeth and that they believe his parents could have planted some of his teeth at the crime scene.

Right.

Okay.

But that's not how-

They weren't the mouth of the body.

But also, so they just knocked some teeth out of him?

Well, that's the allegation.

If he was trying to fake his death so he could go off to Central America, if he would just knock out a couple of teeth, it would be fine.

They could drop some teeth.

This is what's happened on social media.

Sprinkle some teeth in the crime scene, and then someone can identify it as him.

Because also it was his uncle who was a dentist, right?

This is coming back to me.

I did read this.

Also, his uncle's a dentist.

There's kind of two side conspiracies here.

You don't have to answer this.

I never understand how teeth can be an identifier.

So I'm going to tell you.

I'm going to tell you.

I'm like, why is so special about...

You can't get DNA out of your actual teeth, but I think that generally when people identify bodies based on dental records, they're looking at their jaw and the layout of their teeth, all right?

Not the actual teeth?

Correct.

So that's always been my understanding.

I can't say that for a fact, but my understanding has always been it was the jaw.

And to be clear, that this guy was not...

It was not just two teeth that were found.

When they did the autopsy, they said, quote, the vast majority of the skeleton was recovered, including the entire lower jaw with 15 teeth still in place, as well as the upper jaw with nine teeth.

So I think this theory that the parents sprinkled a couple of teeth on the scene...

Wrong...

.

debunked.

So going back now to the theory that you referenced was also, there's this theory that Kait's referencing about the uncle.

So there's also a social media theory going around that the uncle, who is a dentist, identified the body.

And so did he fake these dental records?

Wait, he identified his own nephew's body?

He did not.

I'm debunking it.

The theory that goes out, he identified this as his nephew based on the dental records, is the allegation out there.

Would he even be allowed to, like, is, I don't know, like a conflict of interest?

You know what I mean?

Yeah, I think it would be a conflict of interest.

Right.

So Brian Laundrie's mom worked at a dental office.

His uncle was an orthodontist, so that is true.

But he is not the one who identified the body.

A forensic odontologist, Dr.

Nancy Havens, is the one who identified the remains as Brian Laundrie by comparing postmortem dental radiographs to previous dental records.

And then after this was all done, they performed DNA testing on the teeth from the skull and on a femur, which also confirmed identification that this was in fact Brian Laundrie.

Okay.

And they say, quote, I can confirm that no one in our office and in law enforcement was related to Brian Laundrie.

So debunked.

Right.

Not true.

I just took a DNA test, turns out I'm 100% Brian Laundrie.

The final couple of things that people have used to point to like this theory that he's still alive, okay?

Right.

Okay.

I don't believe it.

So the crime scene.

He died of a gunshot wound to the left temporal region, but he was right handed.

Now-

So you think he went like this?

I don't know.

It doesn't make sense, except you yourself have said multiple times that Bourbon Boy is right handed, but she did this left.

Oh, that's right.

It's true.

Correct.

So perhaps he was ambidextrous.

Perhaps he just shot with his left hand.

I don't know.

But this is sauce, right?

It was a 38 caliber revolver.

The bullet was found buried at about 6 inches of soil, 50 to 60 feet from his remains.

And I looked so hard to figure out the deal with, was there a weapon found at the scene?

And because a lot of people think, like, okay, if he shot himself...

There should be a gun right next to him.

Right next to him.

Exactly.

Well, it's not right next to him.

Now there was flooding, right?

So for me, I'm thinking, like, that's not totally wild to me.

Maybe there was a gun and it moved.

Yeah.

Okay.

But what they had officially announced happened actually makes even way less sense to me.

Oh, okay.

So in 2022, some people found what they are alleging is the weapon.

A whole year later.

In 2022, it was in a bag, secured to a rock with red and white twine, as if somebody was trying to throw it away, hide it, conceal it underwater.

So anyway, I just find it hard to believe this guy shot himself.

And then had time before he...

There would be...

No.

There's no way.

There's no way.

Yes.

So anyway, this is...

Do you think someone killed him?

Well, that's kind of where I'm going is maybe...

So did someone just help him?

I believe he is dead.

Yeah, I think he's dead.

But did somebody help him...

Why would they throw this out then?

If he's writing a letter that he is killing himself...

Why didn't he just kill himself?

Why would you need to dispose of the gun?

Just like, you know, die with the gun next to you.

There's not, there's no choice.

Yeah, unless his parents were like, we gotta give you an ultimatum, you have to die.

Or what if his parents did it?

What if his mom did it?

But also his mom seems so obsessed with him that I can't see her...

I can see her helping him flee.

Maybe she wrote the letter and planted it in the backpack after she killed him.

Because she's like, nothing can separate us.

Not even death.

Then why would she write, burn after reading?

He's not going to read...

I feel like also the burn after reading just makes it so much more suspicious.

It's so weird to put that.

I think she also was having a med DB.

Well, apple tree.

So the kind of last couple of notes I have, so you guys had mentioned earlier this garden also.

So when people were looking for Brian, they were flying drones over the backyard and they kept seeing Roberta doing so much gardening.

Everyone's like, this is a weird time to be doing so much gardening.

Because her son's missing.

There's this, let me see if I can find a picture.

I think she was having some sort of mental breakdown.

No, I think he was hiding in the yard.

But when he was missing.

Here's the picture of their backyard.

See it?

Oh, yeah.

What is that mausoleum?

I forgot about that.

So people are alleging that they had this like underground emergency bunker that was disguised as a flower bed in the backyard, and that maybe that's where they've been hiding him.

But I feel like, first of all, eventually they did get a search warrant.

This house did get searched.

I feel like police would have discovered that.

Then secondly, that they would just have a bunker just in case.

Wow.

They obviously didn't seem like the type.

They didn't just build this all of a sudden, with no signs of soil being, I mean, these people were completely being watched.

Right.

So, I don't know.

So, she was just going out to her garden, just gardening?

Yeah.

People around me are dying, but it's a good time to, I don't know, I find my gardening therapeutic, I guess.

I think she probably was like, I can't sleep, so I'm going to garden.

Well, she probably is like, I can't go out my front yard because it's swarming with people, so let me go to my fenced backyard.

Yeah.

Then there was this theory that came out on TikTok that Brian, there was a three-second clip that was circling on TikTok, and it was showing, it just showed, it kind of took a pocket dial type situation.

Oh, yeah.

It showed a green boat in a body of water, and there was a floating milk carton.

So everyone was like-

What is a pocket dial?

What?

Say what is a pocket dial?

Or like when you accidentally take a video and go, Oh, pocket dial.

Butt dial, Megan.

You've never heard of a pocket dial?

Who the heck calls it a pocket dial?

I've heard of a pocket dial.

The point is that it was thought that it was an accidental Instagram live, that this was unintentional, and it was just sort of like a very brief clip.

And it's not easy to go live though.

Yeah.

Well, and then they were like, and there's this floating milk carton.

What does that mean?

People thought it was like he, and then Brian Laundrie's mom had gone and bought milk at the grocery store.

So was this some kind of coded message?

Oh my gosh.

This is a lot.

Okay.

Well, a TikToker, Riley Lively, did some digging.

She debunked this.

She found the original footage had nothing to do with the case.

It was from 2020, and on the extended video, it was like a couple of guys who were fishing.

And so then you saw them catch their fish and reel them in and everything.

And someone had just taken like this blip from the beginning and then posted it alleging that this was like Brian Laundrie live.

Oh my gosh.

People went in their five seconds of fame.

How many steps are involved in going live?

Like, it's a swipe, click.

Like, I don't think you would be able to putt out all that.

Okay.

I don't, I can honestly say I've never gone live in my life.

And then finally, there was no funeral.

And so people thought that was weird.

Like, Roberta was so obsessed with her son, she didn't even throw my funeral.

I think-

I'm sure they did something privately.

Yeah, they probably were like, we don't want-

Their son's a murderer.

Yeah.

And like, you've been getting all this hate for a month in your front yard, and they probably were like, no one good is gonna come to this funeral who like-

There's nobody to bury.

I think this is a far-fetched theory.

I think so too.

I do think they were hiding him at some point.

For sure.

For sure they were hiding him.

I feel like the behavior, we cannot explain the behavior.

It is so questionable, unless he's like a narcissist born to other narcissists or, I mean, I don't know.

I just think it sounded like he was like having a mental breakdown.

Like he was having delusions.

And if you think about it, like we know that maybe he like killed her and then didn't sleep.

Like he couldn't sleep, you know what I mean?

And then he got like delusional.

Maybe in his head, like this whole thing became like his reality is like, is that to why he killed her?

That was the reason, because you know, people get, when they're delusional, they mess up memories and memories become unclear and they kind of like blend together.

I mean, I think that maybe he, maybe she was trying to leave him or something happened.

He had a history of violence and domestic abuse.

So maybe he accidentally killed her.

And I think he probably just thought, I wonder if he found her messages about wanting to leave.

Maybe.

And he probably just thought, I can just pretend this didn't happen, right?

Let me just call my mom.

Let me just get in my car.

Let me just drive back to Florida.

And he was probably just trying to pretend it wasn't happening.

But then it blew up so much.

Right.

Can't get away from it.

Yeah, he probably is like, I can't see if I'm the most hated man.

I would not be surprised if we learned that someone had helped him kill himself.

I would like if we learn that like, I don't know, just it is weird, the right left handed thing.

Right.

And then the gun, I'm like, I just don't really believe that's the gun if it's tethered to a rock under the water.

But people keep everything is like, guess they, I think they've been like, yeah, that's the gun.

But whether or not there was like DNA or that I could even find if it was a 38 to match the 38 bullet that killed him.

Right.

But that's what people are saying.

People are saying this gun was found near him, it was probably the gun.

But also, the FBI's been great hush hush about this.

You don't think the parents took the gun?

I don't know, and I also am unclear because a gun was missing.

Right.

So when they went to when the police first got the search warrant, it was already missing, and they collected all of the guns from the laundry house, and one of them was missing.

So then it was reported, it was not initially reported, but a gun was missing.

So I'm trying to be like, is this the gun that was missing?

I just cannot find any information out there that like connects any of this stuff, because again, it just sounds like people were not releasing a lot of information about the crimes and what was going on.

So I don't know.

But again, I feel like more likely somebody helped him.

Then there's also the sister.

The sister, when you watch the documentary on Netflix, seems very normal.

I don't know what's going on with my brother, and I just wanted to come forward.

But then on Reddit, people are like, she just posts all day.

Like all she posts about is like suicide, like victims of suicide and stuff, and doesn't seem to have a lot of empathy for like the domestic violence side of it, and the fact that like her brother killed somebody.

Right.

So I don't know.

It's just like a really weird family.

Also, kind of creepy fact for you all, that during the time they were looking for Gabby, like this one month period before they found her, they did not find her, but just following tips, they found six other bodies.

My God.

And like other parks where they're following up tips that maybe Gabby.

Oh my gosh.

This goes back to, you have a conspiracy, right, about all the caves?

Oh yeah, the cave.

The park caves.

But that's in like Tennessee.

No, it's like all over.

There's like, there's so many people that have gone missing.

In parks.

In parks where the cave systems are.

It's a whole other conspiracy.

Eels.

Eels.

The mom.

The cave.

The mother.

The eels are coming out of the caves to.

The mother.

The mother.

You know what I'm saying, right?

Yeah.

Also, it has to be really hard for Gabby Petito's family to just keep hearing that Brian is probably alive.

Like, let's just be, I think, I think he's clearly dead, you know?

And they have a really nice foundation, Gabby Petito Foundation, for anyone who's a victim of domestic violence.

So, let's just plug that for the listeners.

Yeah.

And that's what I have.

Did you give us an opinion, Colleen?

I think he's dead now, but I think they were.

Hiding him.

Yeah.

Okay.

I, yeah, I mean, they might have been, but like hiding him while he was disappeared, while he had been disappeared, Colleen?

Yeah.

But he was found decomposed.

Yeah, but like, I think they hit him for like a week when they kept saying, Fifth Amendment.

I think they just knew and had a part to play.

But then, oh yeah, I think his parents are just so freaking weird.

I think that, yeah, they just know more than they're sharing, more than they're letting on.

But I don't think he's in the garden.

I don't think in the garden that I don't think he's in Argentina with, you know, Hitler.

No.

So, all right.

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Kate, what should the people do?

Yeah.

If you liked this episode, I want you to take their phone out right now.

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A big one.

A big one.

Big one.

See you next Tuesday.