Is Luigi Mangione an Assassin or Just Another Patsy?

**Discussion begins at 5:30**

On December 4, 2024, the week after Thanksgiving and well into the bustling holiday season, Brian Thompson, United Healthcare’s CEO was gunned down right outside of a hotel in Midtown Manhattan - where he was on his way to a shareholder meeting.  In the chilling street camera video, you see the shooter loitering as Thompson approaches the hotel, before the suspect shoots the CEO in the back, fires a couple more, and then turns and walks away. In the days that follow, there is a massive manhunt in NYC.  NYPD swept the city, even taking to the river, for the shooter and killer of Brian Thompson.   Meanwhile, news channels and social media accounts shared the grainy picture of a similarly dressed man checking into a hostel days prior - a white male with a dark hood up over his head and a mask over his face. He’s shown leaning over the counter, his black mask pulled down, smiling at someone across the counter that is not pictured.  

Then, on Monday, December 9, a phone call came in from a McDonald’s in Altoona, Pennsylvania, approximately 223 miles away from the crime scene, the caller claiming that someone matching the suspects description was there.  The police, responding to the call, arrested 26 year old Luigi Mangione.  Found on him during the arrest was the gun, the silencer, and a three page note detailing his plan to kill Mr. Thompson.  But… something about Luigi’s thick eyebrows seems out of place and doesn’t match with the surveillance video that has many people pause over this seemingly too clean murder investigation. Outcries on reddit are claiming that Luigi is a Patsy, very much like our beloved Lee Harvery Oswald (Justice for Lee!), because how does one just get caught in a McDonalds with the murder weapon and a manifesto in his book bag just 5 days later? Is Luigi just too arrogant to believe he would be caught? Or is he being set up? Let’s get into it. 

Transcript

Hey, guys.

Hey.

Hey, what's up?

Hey, hi, how you doing?

The 3SchemeQueens are back together.

One, two, three.

And this is not the first episode that we've released in 2020, 2025, but this is the first one we've recorded in 2025.

Yeah, because we pretty much haven't been together since the beginning of December, over a month.

So we went to book club the other day.

It was like a ping pong ball, right?

The conversation.

We couldn't finish one thought of a story without entering another thought and a completely different story.

But then we would circle back.

Well, much like the podcast, Colleen had a lot of questions.

And then at one point, someone said something and Colleen said, okay, I'll just sit here and write all of my questions.

Yeah, I opened my notes app too.

I was like, I'll just write it down.

And then Heather said, I wish I could record you guys right now.

And I was like, that's pretty much our podcast.

They're organically chaotic.

Exactly.

This isn't like something that we put on for the podcast.

It's just a conversation that we actually are having.

Megan does her best to edit down.

I do, I try to keep you guys in check.

Yeah, she contains us.

So anyway, guys, just a reminder, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages at 3SchemeQueens.

That's the number three SchemeQueens, all one word.

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If you want to check out our website, go to 3schemequeens.com, and you can find links to our social media accounts, our Buzzsprout page, all of our episodes, additional content, our contact page, and our discussion board where you can engage with us and share any updates on the topics that we have discussed.

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Kait, what should the people do?

Yeah, they should scroll on down, leave us a five-star review.

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So is it time for our drink chat?

Yeah, drink chat.

So tonight, we're hanging out.

The fireplace is roaring, because you know, a blizzard has happened.

We got five inches.

I think we got a total of 10 here.

We're close to the mountains in New York.

Well, not quite a foot.

We didn't get quite a foot of snow over a couple of days.

Colleen is being the leadest, Northeastern Massachusetts.

Let's talk about how long the children were out of school for one day of snowing.

These kids were out for a whole week.

They had half a day this week.

Yes, and we're like, so did you go back to school and like tell your friends about, you know, your Christmas gifts?

And they were like, no, that was so long ago.

Colleen came over and wanted to sled.

And they didn't want to go outside because they were tired of sledding.

Yeah, we're over the snow.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay, well, what if I build you a jump?

And they did end up pouring hot boiling water on it, by the way.

Did it ice?

It did ice and they were both so excited about it.

So we were like, I was thinking, I went to the store today and I was like, what are we going to drink?

Colleen was talking about these New England.

I call them regular Shirley Temples.

In every other part of the country with their 7up used.

It's so wild.

Orbsprite.

Ginger ale.

But you know what?

Today, Today, we're having it my way.

New England, Shirley Temple that Colleen has also nicknamed the hippie girl Shirley Temple because I use all hippie ingredients.

Yeah, there's no fake dyes.

It's all real.

What did you use to make this, Kait?

I used Ollie Pop ginger ale and these fancy cherries.

I don't know the name of them.

She goes, I don't think I have any grenadine.

I'd have to text Bourbon Boy.

And I said, well, I know Bourbon Boy's got some fancy cherries.

We took his face.

Yeah, because he uses them to make his old fashions.

Yeah.

They're good.

They are.

They're the fancy cherries because they're expensive.

I would say Colleen kind of nailed it.

It's kind of like an upper class hippie.

Yeah, like, I feel like...

It doesn't give me the childhood vibes of a Shirley Temple, but it's pretty delicious.

It is.

It's the grown up hippie girl Shirley Temple.

Yeah, we'll call it hippie shit, Shirley Temple.

Anyway, it's pretty good.

You guys just go out and try it.

I'll get the name and post it on the Instagram of the cherries.

You know who's probably not drinking this right now?

Is Luigi Mangione in the fridge.

Oh, yeah.

He's probably drinking Shasta.

No, we know what he's having.

Definitely drinking Shasta.

You just have to stand outside of his jail and ask.

Pizza beans.

Definitely not drinking expensive bourbon cherries.

No, definitely not.

Maybe making some whippets with his commissary because I heard his commissary is rich.

Well, people are donating to his commissary.

And he's sharing it with his prison buddies.

His jail buddies because he's not in prison.

His jail buddies, well, who gave him a full makeover, you know?

They sent the head of the barber shop.

That's why his eyebrows are well plucked now.

The head of the barber shop went, gave him a haircut, did a fade on the brows, and gave him a facial.

And that's why he looks hotter now than he did.

I don't find him attractive at all.

I think that there are pictures of him where I'm like, okay.

And then there's other pictures of him where I'm like, now it's all about the...

I think he's a little too skinny for me.

A little too short.

But I would say if you just look at his second mug shot, not the first one, his second one after he's been primped by the jail barbershop, I think he looks pretty good there.

But I am disgusted by the people who are obsessed with him and calling him a national hero.

Yeah, that's disgusted.

Or like the daddy.

Yeah.

The reals about him.

I'm like, our bar is low.

Yeah.

Very low.

I don't think he's a shadow daddy.

I think he's like a cold-blooded sociopath.

But does shadow daddy even mean?

You guys know how booktags?

I'm on BookTalk, but like-

Yeah, I've been on the early gray-

Like a early gray book boyfriend?

Right.

I'm not on your side of BookTalk, I feel like.

What BookTalk are you on?

I can't.

Anyway, so that being said, Kait, what are we talking about today?

So we're talking about Luigi Mangione and the United Healthcare CEO.

Did he really kill them guys?

Do we think he killed them?

On December 4th, 2024, the week after Thanksgiving and well into the bustling holiday season, Brian Thompson, United Healthcare's CEO, was gunned down right outside of a hotel in Midtown Manhattan, where he was on his way to a shareholder meeting.

In the Chilling Street camera video, you see the shooter loitering as Thompson approaches the hotel before the suspect shoots the CEO in the back, fires a couple more, and then turns around and walks away.

In the days that follow, there's a massive manhunt in NYC.

NYPD sweeps the city, even taking to the river, for the shooter and killer of Brian Thompson.

Meanwhile, news channels and social media accounts shared the grainy picture of a similarly dressed man checking into a hostel days prior.

A white male with a dark hood up over his head and a mask over his face.

He's shown leaning over the counter, his black mask pulled down, smiling at someone across the counter that is not pictured.

Then, on Monday, December 9th, a phone call came in from a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, approximately 223 miles away from the crime scene.

The caller claiming that someone matching the suspect's description was there.

The police, responding to the call, arrested 26-year-old Luigi Mangione.

Found on him during the arrest was the gun, the silencer and a three-page note detailing his plan to kill Mr.

Thompson.

But something about Luigi's thick eyebrows seems out of place and doesn't match with the surveillance video that has many people pausing over this seemingly too clean murder investigation.

Outcries on Reddit are claiming that Luigi is a patsy, very much like our beloved Lee Harvey Oswald.

Justice for Lee.

Justice for Lee.

Because how does one just get caught in a McDonald's with a murder weapon and a manifesto in his book bag just five days later?

Is Luigi just too arrogant to believe he would be caught?

Or is he being set up?

Let's get into it.

I just like to point out that he's already verified on Twitter.

How can you be verified without access to your own account?

What do you guys think?

I'm going to refrain from sharing my opinion because I did a lot of research.

But what about you guys without really?

I think he's mentally ill.

Colleen, you're so annoying.

What?

I just had to have been a manic breakdown.

Like a psychotic, he's going-

What, just based on him screaming as he got taken away?

No, I think he has chronic pain.

He endured years of pain.

And I think he's at the timeline of common psychotic breakdowns.

Like he's at that age group where psychotic breakdowns happen.

And like when you have chronic pain that also can disrupt, I don't know, your normal flow.

So I feel like he's having a psychotic breakdown.

Okay.

So you think he did it, but it was like driven by his psychotic breakdown?

It's also odd to me how much of a show they're making him into be, like with the perp walk and everything.

Like, it's like that's what you're wasting your money on.

I disagree because the media outlets are choosing to show him because social media is so into him.

So he's making money for them.

It's all about money.

Well, why did the mayor have to personally walk him when he didn't walk any other criminal that week?

Because again, all those people in social media are into this.

Well, just because it's on social media, why did they have to walk him?

Well, or you could argue if he truly did it, they want to make a show of like, we're not going to tolerate this.

Yeah.

I think they're also all enjoying their 15 minutes.

I, so I've also done a lot of research on this and I still, I'm going to see if, with Kait can talk me one way or the other, because I really am 50-50.

Like I have a really hard time, again, the photos, you know, I talk about the Redditors who were like, if the brows don't fit, you must have quit.

Right.

Like the brow, I think the photos kind of look a little iffy, but also kind of what you nailed in your intro that like, everyone's like, this guy is like a brilliant assassin.

But then five days later, he's just chilling in McDonald's, eating the hash brown, a manifesto and a murder weapon.

He's not all there.

I don't, like, he's not all there.

Or did he not do it and somebody just set him up to like, you know, be the patsy and tie this with a lovely bow on it and be the head of it.

So I really am 50-50.

I don't have a firm.

So we'll see, we'll see what you convince me of.

Okay, so let's first talk about who Luigi Mangione is.

So he's a 26-year-old from Maryland.

Guys, he's not far from us.

He grew up in Baltimore or like not Baltimore, but like in a suburb of Baltimore.

He went to an all boys private school named Gilman School in Baltimore.

He was valedictorian.

And then one of his classmates actually said like, he didn't really have any enemies and he was valedictorian for a reason.

And he was like bestowed on the student with the highest academic achievements.

And then he went to an Ivy League college.

He went to UPenn.

So when he went to UPenn, he earned a bachelor's and master's degree in computer science, which means she's like super smart, right?

And according to the school, he founded a video game development club.

Yeah, interesting, right?

He was employed as a data engineer at TrueCar, but after everyone had been investigating him, the company came out and said he actually had not worked at the company since 2023, but he basically was doing work for their social media profiles.

And he was pretty much just described as this nice guy who had a lot of friends, who had this really promising future, and everybody seems to be very confused about all of this.

People who know him personally.

After he graduated, he went to live in a surf community in Hawaii for a little while.

And ultimately, he had to leave because, like Colleen said, he had chronic back pain and was not really able to surf.

He had an invasive spine surgery.

Oh, yeah.

When he was in Hawaii, he was living in this, was it really a surf?

It's called surf something, right?

But was it a surf community?

It was a surf community.

Because I heard he went surfing one time and then he was like stuck in bed for weeks after.

But they would go rock climbing together.

Right.

It was like hiking, surfing.

It was like all the like outdoor.

Sounds a little.

Sounds culty.

Yeah.

I was like, you're right.

Well, when did he heard the back?

Get to my theory about that.

So the back was a chronic issue he'd had from high school.

But he left the surf community to travel back to the East Coast to get his surgery, right?

Right.

And then, you know, he's also been shown what Colleen's saying on social media.

He posted an image of his spinal column with the screws in his lower back.

He also had a Goodreads account, which I don't know if you guys know this, but I also have a Goodreads account.

And I like Fable better than Goodreads.

He has so many books on it, too.

Yeah, and the books are a little weird, right?

So on his Goodreads account, he gave four stars to a book called Industrial Society and Its Future by Ted Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber Manifesto.

So this details Kaczynski carrying out a bomb campaign that killed three people, and injured dozens of others, and then ultimately he was arrested in 1996.

But in his review, yeah, hit us with it.

Luigi said that Ted Kaczynski was a violent individual, but also described him as a political revolutionary.

Now, does that sound like someone who is?

Sounds like somebody is having a psychotic breakdown.

No.

No.

No.

Trying to be what that person.

So actually, I disagree.

I think he's a sociopath.

So I'm gonna say, I have thoughts about the surf community that I think we're gonna get to when we talk about our theories too.

But did you see that he actually ran a book club at this community?

And one of the books they read in the book club was the Unabomber's Manifesto.

Oh.

And so one of the, it's unclear whether that was his choice or if it was the RJ Martin who's been making the rounds who I've talked about.

Anyway, they read this as a book club at the surf community, which we were talking about and that sounds a little bit culty.

Yeah, that sounds culty.

This is your book club choice?

Yeah, very culty.

His Goodreads shelves were not at all like ours.

No, not at all.

Mine's mostly just fantasy.

Mine's a lot of like chicklet and, got some nonfiction in there, but nothing culty like this.

You like historical fiction too, I feel like.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not a historical fiction girl.

I'm sorry, Colleen, that I'm just coming at you really hard about the mental health.

I just disagree.

I feel like he fits the profile of a sociopath.

Also, I mean, everybody loves him.

Also, mentally ill.

Also, to be clear, no, no, no, no, no.

Sociopaths are not mentally ill.

Sociopathy is not a guilty by reason of insanity, whatever.

But I would also argue back to your point about the chronic pain that he actually, after he had the surgery, he was all over Reddit telling people that he felt great.

His pain, after he had the surgery in 2023, right?

You agree, or did you do something else?

No.

His pain was cured.

So the man, he had spondylothiasis, so he had one of his vertebrae.

Because the picture shows, his x-ray shows a lot of hardware.

It's like four.

It's probably three screws or three screws.

Yeah, I would think it would be a screw above and the vertebrae above, vertebrae below.

But regardless, he claims that his pain, his pain was treated by the surgery.

So it's not like he was in 10 out of 10 unbearable pain, which is kind of what you were implying.

I guess I'm feeling a little defensive because I feel like mental illness is just like always the music for everything.

Now, and I mean, I'm not, you can't just think that he is the age.

Well, I think he's actually a little late.

It like manifests more when they're 18 to 21.

I think schizophrenia, that's what you're talking about.

Manifests between 18 and 21 in males.

Mostly.

I agree.

We actually had this discussion before that.

Didn't we just have a discussion about this?

I usually think about it like 18, young 20s.

He's 26.

It feels kind of the higher end for me.

What I would say is also kind of a mystery.

Like you've implied here, we know at some point he was living in California and he had that car job.

Bay area, true car.

True car, which they said that he hasn't worked there since 2023, right?

Right.

We know he was in Hawaii.

He was in Hawaii.

He was in California.

He got it at some point after his backstory, he went back to Hawaii.

But like no one can really track.

He was in Asia for a while traveling, right?

But like no one can really track where he was.

Right.

And it sounds like he had just gone like completely off the grid from his friends and family.

So actually his mother reported him missing November 18th, 24 and said she had not heard from him since July.

And his friends all said, yeah, we hadn't heard from him either.

And if you go into his like Twitter, people are posting like, dude, we haven't heard from you since July.

Where are you at?

What's going on?

It's been months.

We haven't heard from you.

It's like, that's also really weird.

What was he doing for six months?

Planning this.

He had to have been.

I'm sorry.

I guess you know where I stand.

I just think he's a sociopath.

I think he's really, he fits the profile of a sociopath so perfectly.

How do you just kill someone and walk away?

Sociopath, arrogant?

Well, here's what I want to know.

He's seen on CCTV when we get to this, on the phone talking to someone.

Who is he talking to on the phone if he's not spoken to anybody in six months?

Right.

He had to have been working with someone, right?

RJ, maybe.

I don't know.

Yeah.

You're talking about the surfer guy.

Yeah.

I know.

He's been all over the press, but he's just like something about him.

And then you can't really find much on him.

So there's just something about him.

It is very weird.

Yeah.

It's very weird.

I digress.

But yeah, his mom, when he got arrested, his mom didn't seem like...

She hadn't heard from him for six months, like you had just said.

And she was like, I guess, sort of wasn't surprised.

So people are like, so that she thinks that this could be within the realm of like...

Yeah, it was like, I can't say for sure.

I think after they had the photos and they were going around trying to identify this person, she said, I can't say if that's my son or not, but yeah, it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Like he could do something.

Right, right.

Exactly.

You're right.

That is fishy.

That's probably one of the main things in the like, he did it column.

Right.

So anyway, he's currently being held without bail in New York where he faces charges of first degree murder, two counts of a second degree murder and one count of terrorism related to killing of United Healthcare CEO, Brian Thompson.

Why terrorism?

I'll tell you why.

Cause it's a targeted attack.

I did make a note on this.

Do you know?

No, go ahead.

Okay.

I saw, actually read about this, that the reason that he has the terrorism charge is because under New York law, you can charge anybody with terrorism if they, quote, intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, influence the policies of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion, and affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination and kidnapping.

So, if his purpose in shooting Brian Thompson was like coerce the government regarding insurance.

Yeah, and changing their healthcare.

Yeah, changing our whole healthcare system or bullying people into being anti-capitalistic.

But also, you wouldn't say that targeting United Healthcare CEO and gunning him down in the street wasn't an act of terrorism?

What makes you think that that's not an act of terrorism?

Like, then why isn't every murder charge a terrorist charge?

Because he was trying to make a statement.

Because if you murder your husband because you're mad at him because he cheated on you, that's not trying to impact policy and change.

That's what they're going to try to argue in the trial that he wasn't, that he was targeting this one man, right?

Because when I think terrorism, I think a group, a population, and all he did was shoot one guy.

No, because if I'm shooting one guy, they're saying he's targeting the population of insurance companies.

I don't know about that because I would argue that even the guy who, I mean, this is a whole other conspiracy to get into, right?

But even the guy who blew up the Tesla in front of Trump Tower and had zero people harm, that's an act of terrorism.

Because you were trying to do some sort of symbolic murder.

I guess in my mind is like how many people was he trying to hurt in shooting this one?

Oh, no, I think you could have a terrorist attack.

That's what I'm trying to understand.

So you're saying that in your mind, I was thinking a group of people who would act this, but you're saying a group of people targeted.

Yes.

Now, I think if you kill the president, that's an act of terrorism, right?

That's one man.

What's the actual definition of terrorism?

I think terrorism is to invoke fear, right?

He's not at all personally connected to Brian Thompson, the CEO.

I don't think he's had any discussion with him, right?

It was a targeted attack towards a population of individuals.

Even if it's just him, it was to make a statement that he thinks the insurance companies should not be doing what they're doing in America.

And I'm not even sure, honestly, there's all this stuff about being insured.

If we believe he did it, I'm not even sure he was targeting necessarily the health care industry as much as capitalism and United Health Care happens to be, it's number four in the Fortune 500 companies.

It's just a huge company.

So yeah, he's been very outspoken on social media about like, previous to this, obviously, about being anti-capitalist.

I think that's more so his because he never even had United Health Care, right?

There are people who went on his Reddit before it all got pulled down.

It's a lot of anti-capitalism.

It's not really a lot of like...

And then actually people were like, he was on this message board for chronic back pain, and he was on a message board for brain fog.

He had brain fog.

But he was really offering support to other people.

He wasn't really on these like, rants.

Oh yeah, I think probably more so capitalism.

Colleen, to answer your question, terrorism is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that makes sense.

Let me get back to it.

Okay.

So those are the charges that he's being like charged with in the state of New York.

He's also being accused of federal stalking and murder offenses that could lead to a death penalty sentence.

So he's going to be tried in the state, and then he's going to have a federal trial.

Oh, okay.

It's not good for him.

No, it's not.

Although federal prisons are apparently the way to go.

Which prison is he in now?

It's so interesting.

First of all, he's not in prison because he's not been tried yet, so he's in jail.

Differences.

You know how we know this?

People know this.

Shout out Jillian.

Yeah.

I think that you're not a true climber.

Okay, but are our listeners true climbers?

Well, what's the difference between jail and prison, Megan?

So jail is where you go before prison.

Okay.

I also, if you watch a lot of these shows like 60 Days In or these other jail shows, and where it's just like, you got like people who are there for a week, people who are there for a month, you got people who are like coming in drunk and they got to sleep it off, all that, that's all jail.

Once you go to trial and you're found guilty, you can get sent, if it's a big enough charge, you get sent to prison.

Are there levels of severity in jail?

Well, yeah, I'm sure you've got, yeah, because you-

For security.

So he's in the Brooklyn jail, and you know who his jailmate is?

Oh, yeah, Diddy.

Diddy, and so apparently-

Wait, Diddy is his jailmate?

No, they're in the same jail.

I believe they're actually on different units, but they're saying Diddy is getting jealous of all the attention that-

Yeah, because that's all Diddy wants, his attention.

Yeah.

And didn't you guys see the like, there was all this outrage on social media about like, how Luigi Mangione is like, being treated unfairly in the jail and whatever.

And they did this interview, this woman, because they were like, with all the jailmates, but they weren't allowed to go in the jail, so the jailmates are yelling.

Yeah, you can see that there's all these people are saying that.

He had pizza beans for dinner.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And they just scream out answers to the press.

Right.

I mean, I think he's being treated unfairly, but in a positive way.

Is that what they're implying?

I mean, I think he sounds like he's like a hero amongst the inmates.

Right.

And they're bending over records and he's sharing his commissary and...

Right.

Yeah.

Anyway.

Okay.

He's also being charged in Pennsylvania with multiple offenses, including forgery, carrying an unlicensed firearm and also providing a false ID.

Mangione was arrested five days after the murder.

Oh, we already know this.

Yeah.

But he was also he was found with guns, bullets, fake IDs and cash.

It's kind of like, where were you using those guys or the mapping gun to the shooting?

You know, they say it is.

Do we know anything for sure then?

What weapon?

They're saying that he uses 9mm, that they, the government, the police.

The police, the prosecutors.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, everyone is saying that.

The prosecution.

They're using, they're using, they're claiming.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

Who's they?

I'm like, when the police arrested him, they said, this gun matches.

Because remember, there were the spent casings that said, deny.

Yeah.

Deny, defend, and depose.

Yeah.

And so they were like, oh, these came from this gun.

So anyway, again, let's circle back, circling back to the document, the three-page letter that he had written or-

His manifesto.

His manifesto, yeah.

Apparently, it had a line stating, these parasites had it come in, end quote.

I actually found the manifesto.

You did?

Tell me about it.

Let me see.

Well, only one person published it.

So is it ethical for me to read it?

Probably not.

I think people made a choice not to give this information more light, you know, like more attention to the manifesto.

But what he says is, yes, to the feds, I'll keep this short because I do respect what you do for our country.

To save you a lengthy investigation, I state plainly that I wasn't working with anyone.

This was fairly trivial.

And then he included with his manifesto a spiral notebook that will talk about interesting stuff.

But the spiral notebook, if present, has some straggling notes and to-do lists that illuminate the gist of it.

I do apologize for any strife or traumas, but it had to be done.

Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming.

A reminder, the US is the number one most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly number 42 in life expectancy.

United is the, indecipherable, largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google and Walmart.

It has grown and grown, but as of our liked expectancy, no, the reality is these indecipherable have simply gotten too powerful and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it.

I won't read the rest of it, but yeah.

He also commented in The Spiral that was also with him.

He said that he initially was going to use a bomb, but he wanted to avoid endangering innocent people, so how thoughtful.

He was very thoughtful of you.

Yeah.

Not for anything.

I had thought about a bomb, but then I-

Yeah.

The Unabomber manifesto was to, I feel like that was a little bit of an inspo for him, but who am I?

Can I just give you a few thoughts about the victim here?

Yeah, sure.

Go ahead.

Let me tell you about the victim, because whenever these girls do an episode, they post to the shared drive so I have their sources, so we can source the episodes.

She was like, yeah, it's in the Google Drive, check it out.

So that's why I said, okay, I put the sources up and I saw your notes.

But yeah, do you have anything about the victim?

I said no, because I was like, what is there to know about the victim?

He's boring.

She was like, I don't know if people care about the victim, but I was like, this is also sort of what's...

I know we're talking conspiracy, but as someone who absorbs a ton of true crime content, I feel like we shouldn't forget who the victims are.

But also Megan loves, Megan just, again, I told her today, I was like, you just have this thirst, inquenchable thirst to know more things.

So like Megan just loves a reas, like loves going down a rabbit hole.

It doesn't matter what it is, if it's true crime, if it's a conspiracy, I mean, anything, like if it's, you know, bravo characters.

That's sad, yeah.

But it's true.

But I did feel like we should look into who was Ryan Thompson because I am disgusted by the Kira worship that Luigi is getting.

Same.

The GoFundMe.

And so let's not forget that there was like, it's like a real person that he killed.

So Brian Thompson was the CEO from April 2021 to his death.

As we kind of got to, United was the largest health insurer in the US with 49 million customers generating $281 billion in revenue in 2023.

And he'd actually increased the profits by 25 percent under his leadership.

And I think we talked about like in Big Pharma too, where I'm like, I want the nurses and the doctors to be making money.

I could go on a whole rant.

I could definitely go on a whole rant.

But I think health care providers are underpaid for what they put up with, for how much work it takes to do what they do, and for the legal ramifications of them messing up.

I also think health care providers don't like insurance companies almost just as much as the public does.

Oh my gosh, 100 percent.

Because we're constantly fighting with them too.

So it's like we get the backlash for the insurance companies.

By the way, guys, when insurance denies your care, we're on the phone doing peer-to-peer reviews trying to sell to them why they should cover it.

So yeah, we all want what's best for our patients, and we are not pocketing money from all of this.

Exactly.

Anyway, so the deal was, Brian Thompson, morning of his death, he was entering the Hilton to attend the annual investors meeting.

That's when he was shot, which we'll talk about.

Brian Thompson was taken to the hospital, he was pronounced dead, and investigation into the crime scene revealed, the spent casings that we talked about that had the words delayed, denied to pose, engraved in them, which is linked to the delay, denied to defund, which is used to describe insurance companies' efforts to avoid payouts.

So anyway, Brian Thompson, he was married, he had two sons.

He had been separated from his physical therapist wife for years, at least as far as 2018.

In 2018, he'd purchased a second home less than a mile from the family home in Maple Grove, Minnesota, and they had resided separately since then.

And so now she and her children have been getting bomb threats.

What?

So she had to hire security to come to the house to protect them.

So again, these people who are celebrating his death, like this is disgusting.

He was a father, he was a husband, and these children and his wife, I mean his wife, they were still married.

Like, why are they getting threatened now?

Yeah, I really disagree with the hero worship that he is.

He had been working at United Healthcare since 2004.

But here's where it got actually, so again, I wanted to look into it, because like this is a human being, but he did have some legal issues.

Also, I wanted to look in this, because I thought, you know, as a true crime person, Kait, who's usually the first suspect, most likely suspect?

Spouse and or partner.

Right, so who's to say his wife didn't take out a hint on him?

I don't know, but I was like, what's the situation with his wife?

So, interesting, sounds like they were still cordial, in that, I mean, they were still legally married.

Shared custody of the sons, lived separately.

Right.

Okay, maybe that's just how they worked.

Maybe they still love each other, they just seem to be separate from each other.

Maybe.

Yeah, we don't know.

Maybe that was like, you know what?

We still want to be married, and we still enjoy each other, but you know what, I just don't want to live with you forever.

I just like my space.

Right.

Yeah.

Weird.

To be clear, I don't think that's normal.

Yeah.

That's definitely weird.

So anyway, he did have some legal trouble.

He had exercised stock options and sold shares worth $15.1 million on February 16th, less than two weeks before it was announced that the DOJ was investigating if the company had violated antitrust laws.

So after this announcement was made that they were under investigation, stock prices plummeted.

So Thompson's stock options reportedly had several years until expiration.

He had never sold any shares prior to this event, and he was one of several executives who had sold off a combined $101.5 million in shares.

So DOJ was investigating them for insider trading, and that is important because-

He Martha Stewart them.

Well, and there's a whole Nancy Pelosi thing read.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

It all comes back to insider trading.

So yeah, he was sort of in some legal trouble at the time of his death.

Brian Thompson, he was a dad, he was a husband.

Right.

He was doing some not so great things.

All right, but he was also one man, you know?

I guess I'm confused that you would not, Colleen, that you would not find this as an act of terrorism when he like took out the kingpin.

I just think I didn't have a good understanding of what a charge for death, because when I think terrorism, I think Boston bomb 9-11.

Yeah.

Those are my examples.

I don't think like a mass terrorist attacks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that was my only question.

I mean, I think it's, I don't think murder is good.

Like if he actually is proven to have been the actual murderer, then he is a murderer and should be tried as such.

But I also think people don't understand how awful insurance companies are.

It's like I understand why he was so emotionally upset about insurance and how that functions in America.

But I don't think that justifies killing an innocent man.

Right.

And 90% of what's on Twitter, I feel like, are jokes.

But people don't understand that you're joking about an actual dead person.

Yeah.

Like I do think-

Well, it's not all jokes because people have donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to him.

Yeah, the memes is what I'm talking about.

Like I feel like a lot of people look at the memes and think, like, oh my God, how can you think that?

And like, it's a meme.

But then it's like, how can you be making a joke out of this?

Yeah.

I mean, I just think that what did they say about millennials?

Like the things we've lived through, like if we don't have the humor, we're not like-

Well, we talked about this.

Yeah.

Like, oh, the humor.

Yeah.

We've like lived through 9-11 and two recessions, and the housing crisis, and the pandemic.

There's like all these things, we've like huge events that we've lived through.

So if we didn't like have humor, we would just be crying.

Yeah.

Anyway, so what I find really interesting is that even though he was caught with all this stuff, he's pleading not guilty.

Well, he's a nutsy.

Exactly.

Did he have on hand that matches the scene?

Let me tell you, apparently in November 24th, Mangione ended up on a Greyhound bus somewhere between Atlantic and New York City.

They're not sure where he boarded.

He was like paying all cash, right?

But he gets off in New York City.

He takes a cab to the Hilton Hotel from the Port Authority bus terminal.

He hangs around for about 30 minutes.

He calls another taxi that takes him to the Upper West Side where he checks into a hostel.

And that's where the famous photo is.

Apparently, the hostile worker was like, let me see your smile.

And that's because she was fording with him.

And that's when he pulled down his face mask.

And that's the picture we have.

That is the picture that everybody is like.

And that's the picture that we don't know 100% is Luigi.

No, no, no.

That picture is.

But I don't know how we know that that person is the person who shot him.

But that is they apparently tracked all the CCTV to like the like, and that's how the investigation went.

So anyway, or like, they tracked it backwards.

But in answer to your question, he checked in to this hostel using a fake ID for a man named Mark Rosario, and he paid in cash.

You know, we can talk about when he, there's kind of some questionable thought, but this timeline that they have that they've tracked him.

You know, then apparently on the morning of the murder, he goes to Starbucks, he buys a shot of espresso, a bottle of water at a kind bar.

We have a photo of him there at the Starbucks.

And then they matched his fingerprints to like his trash from the Starbucks at the Starbucks.

But I would argue, how do we know that that is the same person who was the shooter at the Hilton?

But regardless, the reason I tell you this in answer to your question is that when he was captured five days later, he had the fake ID for Mark Rosario, which is the ID he used to check in at the hostel.

He had the nine millimeter, the 3D printed gun with the silencer on it.

There was no weapon at the crime scene.

So they can't match any weapon.

The bullets would work for that gun.

There's definitely gaps.

He had the manifesto on him.

That was the evidence also, which you would argue is like a handwritten confession, right?

So that's the evidence that he had on him when he was arrested.

But there was also this weird thing, when the shooter allegedly fled the scene, he got an e-bike and went cut through the park.

Is it all eyewitnesses?

CCTV.

They tracked CCTV, which is why I kind of theorized...

There was not a single witness?

How's to say?

Who's to say?

There was one witness to the shooting.

We haven't heard from her.

She was like, you can see her in the video in the Hilton.

But I would like to know, when they tracked the CCTV that tracked him back to the hostel, did they have like continuous, or even to the Starbucks, even to the Starbucks, did they have continuous eyes on him to the Starbucks?

Because who's to say?

Somebody switched out?

Yeah.

Maybe he didn't even, you know, maybe our day.

But yeah, I hear what you're saying.

It's like, do we have enough proof to prove without a doubt?

I mean, I don't think that's why I'm 50 years old, because I don't know the video.

But apparently when he fled, he left his backpack full of monopoly money and his coat, monopoly money in his coat in the park, and they found that.

I'm like, why would there...

Some people are claiming it's supposed to be meaningful, right?

The monopoly money probably meant something.

Yeah, yeah.

But I'm like, you took time to lose your coat.

Why didn't you like throw your gun in the river that you were telling us, I didn't even know this, that they were like scuba diving in the river.

Yeah, they were scuba diving in the river.

Yeah, well, they were doing a full on investigation, like scouring the city.

So anyway, that was a long ride about way to answer your question about what was on him, that they're calling evidence, but it was the ID, the weapon and the manifesto.

Right.

And I guess we won't know every piece of evidence until the trial starts.

And even still, like there's gonna be redacted, redacted.

Right, like everything's always redacted.

Yeah.

I think it's interesting that he's pleading that guilty because in my opinion, there's this mountain of evidence.

Okay, you give us your mountain and I'll tell you what I think.

I just gave you all the...

Oh, that was the mountain of evidence.

That's all the evidence?

I mean, he had the firearm.

The pictures are very close.

I know you said the eyebrows, the eyebrows, the eyebrows.

I think it could be like, it's a very grainy picture.

Well, and then it also felt like in some of the pictures, it would be like this is the...

And, you know, maybe it's just technology.

But like, he had like white straps in his backpack in one picture, but then like black straps in the other, but they're like, this is the same backpack.

So either like, the color on your CCTV is so off or it's not the same.

Right.

Well...

But I mean, it could be either.

I can't believe...

Again, let's go back to this.

The CCTV are never working.

Right.

So are we to assume that they were working the entire stretch?

That's crazy to me.

I'm sure there wasn't CCTV working the entire stretch, but they were probably able to like, again, piece together where they found him.

Yeah, but then in that actual video we have where he walks out and the guy walks out with the hood, we never see his face and he just shoots the gun.

And I saw, actually, I can't fact-check this.

Did I see something on Instagram that he was Mangione is left-handed?

Yeah.

And the guy who shot is right-handed?

Yeah.

I saw that too, but I can't provide whatever.

I just know I've seen that too.

Is he ambidextrous?

Maybe.

Maybe.

I mean, he's a genius.

Yeah.

That's what I'm saying.

This man, I just feel in my bones this guy is a sociopath.

I'm not invalidating the CEO's death.

Somebody has to go down for it.

But I just think we should be confident in who is going down for it.

Which he deserves a fair trial.

Oh, so this one is affecting him.

I do want to talk about that because the defense is saying-

Is he going to get a fair jury?

That is what his defense is saying is the biggest-

Yeah.

I don't think it's going to have a fair trial.

So they're saying that, okay, he pled not guilty in New York, by the way.

He has not entered any plea for the other charges that I talked about in Pennsylvania.

In federal.

In federal, yeah.

And then his lawyer, her name is Karen Friedman.

I'm sorry.

I thought he had a guy.

No, he has the wife of Diddy's lawyer.

Yep.

Karen Friedman Agnifilo.

That's the name of his lawyer.

In New York.

In New York.

I was just gonna say that she, so her defense is that like, so what she's saying is that the state charges and the federal charges are basically in conflict with one another because the state charges are kind of like what you're saying, Colleen, like it's like, you're charging him with terrorism to coerce the civilian population.

However, the federal charges are more focusing on a crime against just a single individual.

Yeah, how about he wouldn't be federal charged for things?

Yeah, she's saying they're in conflict with one another, which...

I mean, you could also argue, is he gonna get a fair trial?

I mean, is he gonna get a fair trial after that entire parade?

That whole purple...

Yeah.

She's...

Yeah.

So she also says she's very concerned about the client's right to a fair trial, but one could argue that Donald Trump, who was just tried in New York City, probably was not tried by a fair jury.

So like, it goes both ways.

Well, people are just that high profile.

Everyone...

Like, how do you find a jury that hasn't heard anything about this case and hasn't already developed an opinion?

You know what I mean?

So yeah.

So she's basically saying like, he's being treated like, she says, quote, human ping pong ball, it's warring between two jurisdictions, unquote.

And then she's also saying that like, he's being used for political gain and just to call attention to things, you know, being a spectacle.

But how much I, like you say he's being paraded, but how much of that is the defense playing into it?

Because the whole thing, I mean, the perp walk was a parade.

The perp walk was a parade, but I would also argue though, that he's all over social media being hailed a hero.

So either way, it's like, it's gonna be hard to find a jury that doesn't have either of those people, that doesn't have someone who's like-

They're just gonna try to find people all between 18 to 24 on the jury is what they're gonna try to do.

Well, I don't think they can do that.

No, but-

Because the defense and the prosecution, each they have to-

No, I know, I was, yeah.

I had to do the duty, Megan.

Sorry.

The defense is going to try to get young people on the jury.

That's what I was saying.

But I'm saying they're gonna argue that like-

It's gonna be hard to have a fair on both ends.

Yeah, they're gonna argue like the perp walk makes it unfair, but you know, the prosecution could argue that like-

The fact that you just said he's verified on Twitter and is tweeting.

No, he's not tweeting, but he is verified.

That's why I thought you had to apply to be verified.

You can also just buy it now.

You can buy the blue check.

Yeah, that loses its value.

Yeah.

Karen Huger did that.

I mean, I feel like maybe he just bought the blue check.

Anyway, the judge who is trying this trial, his name is Gregory Carrow, and he basically said what we just said.

He can't control what's being said about the trial on the outside.

He can't control what's being said on social media.

But he did respond to his lawyer and was like, I will make sure that he gets a fair trial.

So I think they're gonna try.

There's a lot of like, try, try, try, try.

Like lots of work.

It's gonna be so prolonged.

It's gonna be, I mean, OJ Simpson, like he was the high-profile trial.

Hopefully they don't, I mean, I hope for our sakes they do, but hopefully they don't let cameras into the courtroom.

Like they really want a fair trial.

Yeah, they should lock it down.

They shouldn't like, yeah.

So anyway, so let's talk about the social media praise.

There's a lot of people on social media who's gained a lot of followers that are basically validating what he did.

Yeah, they're like, he's an American hero.

And he's, yeah, he's become a hero.

He's become this infamous person that will go down in history and changing the course of...

Do we think he, do we really think him shooting Brian Thompson is going to change?

Well, I mean, what do you guys think of, so like after he, the CEO died, insurance trying to like validate like the timing of anesthesia.

Blue Cross, Blue Shield.

That was before.

No, that was shortly after he died.

Yeah.

They withdrew it.

They withdrew it.

Do you think they withdrew it for because of fear?

Oh, I definitely think they're going to...

It wasn't United, right?

No, it was Blue Cross, Blue Cross, Blue Shield.

Because I would say as somebody who deals with insurance, United is one of my two least favorite insurance companies to deal with.

Collid Closely By.

I'm not going to say that.

I don't want to get hurt.

You guys know.

I'm not going to say it.

I know.

I know.

Let's just say they have a large clientele on the West Coast.

Yeah.

Colleen was saying, Blue Cross Blue Shield was trying to push a fixed time on your anesthesia.

Right.

And if you went over a certain time in the operating room, they wouldn't pay for it.

Which is absolutely insane.

Can you imagine your surgeons being like, I nicked an artery, but we don't have time to fix that, so we'll just let you see that.

It doesn't make any sense that you could, I mean, you can do the best you can, but that you can control all the time.

How long?

You don't know, you get in for surgery and you find something that wasn't expected, but like, we can't take care of that because your anesthesia is going to run out.

Right.

And everyone's anatomy is a little bit different.

That's appalling.

Everything could be routine, and just because it's routine doesn't mean that it's...

Or like, you know, lung surgery, you could have cancer or have had a history of cancer or something like that where you've had radiation and you have friable tissue, and it's like, you can't close well.

Like, this is what we're facing right now with hospital systems.

It's like, the hospital system is being run by people who don't practice medicine, who don't understand what healthcare providers do.

Or what we do day to day.

Yes.

And so they come in and they say these things, and it's like, I can't believe you just said that out loud.

You sound dumb.

Dumb.

You have zero comprehension, but you're making $10 million a year.

So I'd like to cut staffing for the hospital.

Right.

And so this is how the insurance companies are working too.

It's like, what's the bottom line?

And it comes down a lot to like, you are making money off of people's illnesses.

Like, where are your morals?

And you're denying these.

Like, the health care cost is absolutely insane.

I don't know how you fix health care at this point.

I don't, there's a lot of like, oh, we should change the way our system, you know, pays for things.

I'm not going to get into that.

That's a whole other argument.

What I do know is like, the health care in itself is broken, right?

I think everyone understands that the system is broken.

So while I think that he, what he has done to this human being should not be glorified, and I frankly find it discussing that people are saying, like, they're thirsting over him, they're, like, you know, talking about him, like, this great hero.

He's getting fan mail.

People want to be, what's it called, when you can have a visitor in jail just to go visit?

Yeah, I just feel like it's not something that we should glorify.

While I do not agree with what the insurance companies do, this is not something we should glorify.

Agreed.

I just want to go through some of the bullets that I have as far as things that are making me, and again, I'm not committed one way or the other, but just things that have me like, that's weird.

Yeah.

So on this timeline, which again, mostly comes from the CCTV, so like I saw his picture here, and then we saw him here, and that's how they made this map of what he did.

So based on that map, so at 5:34 a.m., he left the hostel, and then between, so he's seen last at 5.35, and then the next sighting is at 5.41, 50 blocks away.

So in six minutes, can you travel 50 blocks?

Well, I looked into it.

Why?

Okay, so apparently he was on an e-bike, and so e-bikes, the average e-bike speed is 50 to 20 miles per hour, so if he was traveling at a constant speed of 50 miles an hour, he could have theoretically traveled between these two sightings at 10 minutes.

Online I found other people saying it would have taken closer to 20 minutes.

But this is a real map.

Nearly impossible.

Yes, if you leave this train station at 535.

But if you leave the hostel at 535, yeah, like, is it possible to meet at your next spot at 541?

And I don't see how that's possible.

So that is a big hole.

There's that.

I already told you my theory that I think perhaps he was bopping around, and that's where we take on Starbucks.

I think he was for somebody who apparently didn't take his mask off for the whole week.

He was in New York City leading up to this.

But he's just bopping around Starbucks, and he's pulling his mask down at the hostel to flirt, and he's making eye contact with the taxi.

It just feels a little...

Sociopath.

They're charming.

Okay.

Why he had five days?

Why did he only make it as far as Pennsylvania?

I have a lot of questions about Pennsylvania.

About why he's in Pennsylvania?

Why is he there?

What's he doing?

He didn't want to flee to Canada or something?

Where is United headquarters?

Minnesota.

Oh, okay.

And they'd actually just had a bunch of protests, like April and May of this year.

Oh yeah.

And apparently, Brian Thompson had been getting death threats, but his wife was like, it's not uncommon.

He's always kind of gotten some death threats.

Well, they also...

Didn't come out that they had just cut budget for executive protection for him.

Had United Healthcare.

We know that for a fact.

So why you would pick United Healthcare as like his...

I mean, I think it's more because it's the number four business in the country, and it serves the largest amount of people.

Well, and also...

And then allegedly his grandmother, but we couldn't find proof of that.

I don't see anything about this.

Yeah.

Also, I think it's a tuber again, is Capitalism and Insurance Company.

That's why you picked United Healthcare.

Okay.

I also have some questions about his...

Sorry.

So the whole story, right, is that guy again, that I tried to look into.

RJ.

RJ.

So he owns this shared living space where people just come and live together, and it sounds a little culty.

It's very culty.

So he came out, and he said that they were buddies.

They went surfing one time, and he was bedridden afterwards, and they never did it again, but they would go rock climbing.

He's the one who said he was never able to have sex because his back pain was so bad.

Okay.

But then this ad, he's also never had a girlfriend?

Well, not that we know.

Nothing proves that.

Someone came out and was like, why match them on Tinder?

But no one has ever actually come forward to have even gone on a date with this guy.

So yeah, I'm like, in cell?

That would go along with your sociopathy.

Or is he gay?

Definitely sociopathy, you know.

There's also a lot of people are thinking he's gay.

Yeah.

But even still, Colleen, there's no record of dating him ever, not just girls.

But I was going to take this back to like, he's had-

Well, just hold that, we're digressing, because I'm not trying to dig into what his sexual preference is.

My point I'm trying to make is like, he had this pain that was so debilitating.

He couldn't surf, he couldn't have sex.

But where to believe, he posts all these thirst traps with his eight pack of muscles, right?

He looks like this big buff dude.

I'm just like, something's not, the math's not mathin for me on that.

And then he's like, and he posted all over Reddit about healthy living, but he gets busted eating McDonald's.

Right.

Kait, okay, Kait's a pretty healthy girl over here, right?

She's into intuitive eating and listening to your body and like, I don't think we would ever catch you at a McDonald's.

No.

Except when you have to go to the bathroom.

I love a bathroom trip to McDonald's.

But you would never be like, let me just go eat some hash browns at McDonald's.

How?

Right?

That was bizarre.

No one has come forward to say they talked to him after July.

Most people talk about, they have evidence, they like texted him, they post on social media.

We know his mom filed a missing persons report.

Right.

But again, on the CCTV that's tracking him to allegedly the site, he's on the phone with someone.

So who's he on the phone with?

Someone else?

I'm sure it's-

Who's involved?

What I find fishy is that the manifesto says, I'm gonna save you the trouble, I was working by myself.

Yeah.

To me that means, it's like these companies, it's like, we did go to the moon, you know?

Like the government releasing, like we did go to the moon.

Yeah.

Like, if you feel-

He reemptively released his rebuttal.

Like, how many people were carrying that?

Like, I kind of feel like he did it.

But there's other people involved.

And how many people were actually carrying a book bag?

With all the same weapon in it?

You think there's more than one backpack with the same weapon?

You said that we were told there was a backpack left.

Oh, yeah.

And then he's found with the backpack.

Yeah, but I don't think-

I tried to look into that.

So the backpack that was left actually, peak design.

So the backpack that was famous from all the CCTV, it sounds like is the backpack that was left with the money, the monopoly money.

And then actually, this guy got, again, speaking of inappropriate celebration and death threats, the CEO of Peak Design.

So Peak Design is like a high-end backpack company.

That's who made the backpack.

He came forward when they first showed out these CCTV photos, and he was called the police and was like, my company manufactures that backpack.

I think maybe could we trace the backpack to somehow identify this guy.

And that CEO got so much flack for everyone's like, you are a narc, you didn't...

Yes, I do remember reading about that.

And he said that he was getting bomb threats, he had to get security.

So anyway, that's really unfortunate.

So I tried to go back and be like, okay, the backpack, he was wearing at McDonald's.

Why don't we want this killer brought to justice?

It's weird.

Yeah, like who's next?

Lawyers?

Who's next?

I just feel like you could, someone could have an issue with anyone.

Anyway, so I couldn't fact check if the backpack that he was wearing at McDonald's, I could not, I never could find a picture of that or the brand, because I was trying to be like, are they trying to tell us that this was the same backpack, but there was a backpack found?

Like it was all, yeah.

I'm very weird on that.

And then it just interesting to you that this guy, this guy has zero criminal history.

Apparently when he was living in Hawaii, he was trespassing, because he was like, it sounds like he was like maybe on like a peer after dark or something.

It was like something ridiculous and he got like a citation for it.

Oh.

But like for trespassing.

But no, it just feels like quite a-

A jump.

A jump from like, yes, I'm this law abiding citizen to like, I'm going to stalk and murder this man.

Which goes to Colleen's, she thinks she's-

I think he just flipped.

Yeah.

I don't know.

There are pictures of him with girls out now.

Yes, but these girls-

But nobody's saying like who their names are.

He's got girlfriends.

He has friends who are-

No, like he's like making out with a girl in this picture.

Like he was-

No, that's not AI.

Because it's a Polaroid.

It's a picture of a Polaroid.

So it could be AI.

Well, then all of you are like-

Right.

That's what's so scary about AI.

Well, AI is terrifying.

But okay, so let's get in the conspiracies now, guys.

Okay.

Number one.

What do you think the number one conspiracy is?

He's a Patsy.

No, it's the eyebrow theory.

Okay.

Let's hear about it.

There's a theory, okay?

Yeah.

The eyebrow theory basically states what you said.

If the eyebrows don't fit, you must acquit.

Yeah.

So this is one of the earliest conspiracies that come out.

It's all over Reddit.

It's the most referenced when people are like, he didn't do it.

Oh, so people are like, it's not him because the eyebrows don't match.

Right.

Okay.

That is the eyebrow theory.

That there's two pictures.

If you look at the picture, the hostel looks like Mangione's Starbucks designs because the eyebrows do not match.

But the taxi one looks like him.

This is the taxi one.

But also, I think it's interesting that he's wearing a light blue mask there and then he's wearing dark masks everywhere.

He was wearing the light blue mask at the McDonald's.

I mean, like in there, those coats are, you're telling me that's the same coat?

It looks like this one could be green and the other one could be black, but it also could be black.

Could just be black.

So, I'm sorry, scroll back up and he's got, okay, look and he's got like white.

Right.

White, but he's not wearing a backpack here.

That's why I can't see it.

But I think this looks like this is like the McDonald's one.

Yeah.

I mean, he looks the worst to ball in McDonald's.

It looks like he has a whole different nose in McDonald's.

Right.

That's another thing is like people are saying the eyebrows, the nose, the facial features.

Yeah.

It doesn't match up, which could go to the theory that like Megan's talking about is there was like a team multiple and like-

Like if they were just like, or I'm just picturing, like if somebody did this, maybe a hitman that the wife took out.

And I'm just throwing out these things that have no proof proof.

These are not allegations, right?

But maybe the guy from Hawaii or maybe a hitman, the wife hired or something.

What if they have him, he's doing the crime and all Mangione is doing is bopping around to Starbucks, getting in a taxi.

Just like, yeah, walking around town.

Yeah, but like then how would he?

Well, and maybe he knew or maybe he didn't know.

Maybe.

Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

So anyway, this is like, so that picture is what the man at the Altona McDonald said, like made them think like, oh my gosh, this is the guy.

The Starbucks picture is like, the mask with the hood.

He's like, this is the guy and he goes and calls the police.

That's what people are saying, but the eyebrows don't match.

There's nothing other than to that theory.

Reddit, there's been people on Reddit that have gone back and forth.

I'm an esthetician.

This is why this is him.

And then another one would go back and say, but I'm also an esthetician and this is why this is not-

And your eyebrow can't grow in in three days.

Exactly.

People are now bringing in their expert opinions.

Kind of like us.

Yeah, exactly.

So the eyebrow theory, that's the first one.

There's the 286 theory.

This is the one-

This is from his Twitter ad, yeah.

This is Megan's mirror.

Okay, go ahead.

Okay.

So in his profile on X on Twitter.

So it features the Pokemon Breelum, which is the-

you want to know which Pokemon that is?

Which one?

I do.

I'm dying to know which Pokemon.

The 200th and 86th Pokemon.

Okay.

That's a lot of Pokemon characters.

How long has Pokemon been around?

A while.

A long time.

A long time.

He's posted exactly 286 times on X, and 286 is also the code for health insurance companies use when, quote, when the appeal time limits for a healthcare claim are not met, end quote.

So if a patient appeals, files an appeal-

So outside the window?

Outside the window.

You can't.

Like they've waited too long to file an appeal, that's a 286.

Yeah.

Okay.

They also pointed out, there's another like people on TikTok have pointed out that there's a Bible verse, Proverbs 286, stating, better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who was walking in his crooked ways, which I'm like, that's a stretch, my guy.

Yeah, that's a big stretch.

Okay.

Also, this man was not poor, right?

No, he was rich.

No, yeah, his grandparents were like civilian immigrants who had nothing and became millionaires.

Right.

They like opened up a country club.

Multiple country club, multiple nursing homes.

Right.

Which is interesting.

Interesting, right?

Yeah.

Like you're a trust fund baby because the insurance companies are in your pocket, my guy.

He also apparently, yeah, in his school was like $40,000 a year in his high school.

But also interesting, and now this had in fact checked, this was floating around on social media, but like his grandma was, do you guys see this?

Like the grandmother had a will.

Oh, yeah.

All 10 grandkids would get $10 million.

He doesn't get any of it now.

Unless, yeah, there was like a, unless.

A clause.

There was a clause, you couldn't commit a felony.

This is like the rumor out there.

I'll fact-check while you're reading.

So that he would have been a millionaire himself if he, you know, didn't.

If he just didn't listen to that intrusive thought.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Allegedly.

Allegedly.

Okay.

And then finally, people theorize that the McDonald's that he was at was exactly 286 miles away from.

That's why he didn't get further.

Uh-huh.

However, it's actually only 279 miles, so weird.

Just weird coincidences, you know?

That's the 286 theory.

I don't really know what he's trying to go with with the 286, but I think all of that's a stretch.

I mean, it is kind of weird that he's, it is weird.

The third theory is the McDonald's slash Monopoly theory.

This is kind of like, you know, he left the bag, the book bag with the Monopoly money, as a sign to come to McDonald's, because they always play Monopoly.

Yeah.

Also, that's exactly what it is.

I guess you could also argue, like I, again, I'm like, I don't understand why McDonald's, but I guess, yes, if it's all part of his like, rant against corporate America, then maybe it would make sense that he would go to McDonald's.

Right, because like, you know, and also Altoona is the home of Pennsylvania Railroad.

But also how often was he in this Altoona McDonald's?

Like, this is probably the first time, right?

Has anyone come forward and been like, he was hanging out?

I don't know, it just seems like a stretch to be like, he left the money to be a signal to go to McDonald's, and then he went in for a hash brown, and someone happened to recognize him and happened to call 911 and happened to do something about it.

Well, just interestingly enough, McDonald's, you know, McDonald's used to play the Monopoly game, right?

Like, that was like, I remember going to McDonald's.

Oh, I remember that.

And like, healing it.

Oh, just hoping that you would win something.

I think I always hoped to like go to Disney World, you know?

My parents were like, are we going to win the money?

But apparently there's like this massive fraud scandal with it, and that's why they stopped doing it.

Oh, I think I did sort of hear this.

Right, right, right, right.

That like, Gennaro Jerry Colombo, who was like, a part of it, and he was part of this Colombo crime family, and it was like, it's been halted.

I thought it was like rigged so that people couldn't win or something.

Right, and it wasn't, like nobody would actually win.

Yeah, right.

So, which I guess kind of like goes, plays into like his capital.

We're giving him a lot of credit to have all of this forethought.

If you're a sociopath and you disappear, I guess he had six months with nothing to do.

Exactly.

Think, just go down rabbit holes.

Yeah.

And like a lot of the notebook that had his manifesto in had like pages and pages and pages on his exercise routine.

So, he has obsessive traits.

Yeah, obsessive compulsive.

Yeah, like pages.

But he couldn't, but he physically was unable to lay there.

And I just feel like, I just can't get that like he was unable to have sex with the back pain is so bad.

And I'm like, what was that before after he got fit?

He could just like starfish, you know?

He definitely could.

And like, but like it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm like, yeah, you have so much pain, you can't even have sex, but yeah, you have a whole fitness.

Okay, anyway, keep going.

And then there's the patsy theory.

A patsy, I'm a patsy.

That's the one I lean toward, okay?

Okay, so some people are just like theorizing on X that Mangione is a patsy or a CIA plant.

Well, yeah, because you saw them, you saw how they dressed him exactly the same as Lee Harvey Oswald.

You mentioned that in the intro.

Yeah, that was really kind of weird, right?

Was weird.

That was, but like, did they dress him or did he do it?

Well, then it was weird too, because like his lawyer was dressed similarly as well.

And I was like, was this a coordinated outfit?

Definitely.

I just feel like it was all done on purpose.

But like the lawyer is the one who usually sets that all up, right?

Yeah, they have to bring in clothes for you.

She's definitely looking at the theories and she's playing, and then people are like, he's such a high profile, like all over social media.

It was the same outfit.

It was so similar.

It was like a white-

Like the rune sweaters every time.

Right.

Yeah.

The rune sweater he's wearing sold out like within minutes too.

Yeah, it goes back to this, like, yeah, I can't believe where that we're all like worshipping this man that, yeah, he got-

It was from Nordstrom, right?

And it sold out.

Okay.

And then this is where the claim that the former house speaker, Nancy Pelosi-

Oh, yeah.

Got info on that.

Yeah.

Is somehow involved because her brother, who's the mayor of Baltimore or he was the former mayor of Baltimore, once mentioned Mangione's grandfather as a well-known businessman and in an interview in the Baltimore Sun.

And so, like, they're all tied.

Well, let me-

Which is the insider trading that you were talking about.

Exactly.

Go on.

Because, again, I have sort of been this, like, this all just feels way too tidy, but like, what would be the motivation for somebody to frame him, for someone to make him a patsy for whatever, right?

Right.

And I couldn't figure it out, so I reached out to our Redditors.

Yeah.

And I asked.

And I got some wild responses.

And I got some that I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Okay.

So first of all, a lot of people were talking about this Pelosi connection.

Okay.

And the claim is that people maybe have seen on social media that the CEO, Brian Thompson, was apparently set to testify against Pelosi in court because whatever you think about Pelosi, you can't tell me.

I mean, there's an entire app to follow her husband's trading.

So you can trade like Nancy Pelosi's husband.

Right.

Right.

You cannot tell me that you cannot be that rich as a public servant.

Okay.

I think for sure she's up to things.

But there is no open investigation from the DOJ into Nancy Pelosi.

Of course there isn't.

But because there have always sort of been these rumors swirling about her insider trading.

And then we know that there was this whole, yes, that because Brian Thompson was being investigated for insider trading, that perhaps he was going to like flip on Pelosi.

I don't buy that.

You can, there's a database.

The Securities and Exchange Commission has a database of people being charged with insider trading.

And there's, over the last 30 years, there's no record of Nancy Pelosi being charged.

So the fact that they would have been using Brian Thompson to testify against her when she hasn't even been charged is kind of ridiculous.

Ridiculous, right.

The other connections, there's like two other connections.

So you mentioned Nicholas Mangione.

He was Luigi's grandfather.

He was like a Sicilian immigrant who had nothing.

And he moved to Baltimore, where her brother, Nancy Pelosi's brother, was a former mayor.

In 1995, as he said, Nick Mangione is foremost identifies a family man.

That's his calling card even before he became a successful businessman.

He's maybe a little rough around the edges and maybe with an aggressive personality, but a man with a big heart, he earned success the hard way.

So people were like, oh my God, there's a connection, Pelosi's and Mangione.

But we don't know, we have no proof proof proof that Nancy Pelosi had ever met Nicholas Mangione.

Oh, yeah.

And then there's one more thing that I think maybe fed into this rumor, where there is a CEO named Brian Thompson.

He's a CEO of a power company.

So this is a different Brian Thompson.

Okay.

He's recorded making a speech and he talks about how closely he works with Nancy Pelosi.

And so people were like, oh my gosh, Brian Thompson has been quoted as like he was working closely with Nancy Pelosi, but wrong Brian Thompson.

So I think maybe that also caused this link.

Sus.

Yeah, like not a lot of interest.

And then the last theory is that it's all just like a SIAP.

So basically what people are, which a SIAP is like, it's called Psychologic Operation.

It's like MKUltra.

Right.

It's like typically used to just like, you know, look at people and kind of like a social experiment type thing.

So basically people are saying that, again, Luigi Mangione is being framed.

Why is he being framed?

This is a question that you were asking.

Because they wanted to see how the public would like react to it.

Oh, it's a SIAP against the public.

Right.

And like, so they think that he like how is they, how are they going to react?

Because they want to see like, what is the target audience's beliefs?

Which like, if that is the theory, and if that is really what happened, then like the social media has proven what the audience feels.

So anyway, they think that it's basically like, the deep state, the illuminati, somebody like, you know, the Freemasons.

They did it.

That's what the SIOP is claiming.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

I did get some people, I got some people on Reddit who were like thinking there was an MK Ultra situation.

Cool First wrote, I think Luigi was given by his family to the CIA to be MK Ultra two months prior.

I don't think he was the one to shoot Thompson, but he was the one that was supposed to take the fall.

Why?

My guess is they're attempting to normalize vigilante killings and because of his looks and charisma, he makes a good front man.

But yeah, I don't know if I buy that theory.

Yeah, I don't really know if I buy that theory.

He hasn't really had a lot of charisma.

Yeah, I don't think he does have a lot of charisma.

No.

He just stands there quietly.

Yeah, I don't know.

Well, except for that initial.

Except when he shouted, it's completely out of touch.

It's an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

When then he was shoved down.

You know what that sounds to me like?

Sounds to me like Lee Harvey Oswald's, I'm a patsy, I'm a patsy.

Yeah.

Or it could just sound like Colleen said, someone who's having a menty bee and it's like, you know.

Having to be everything.

It's a grandeur.

Yeah.

So here are the ones.

I know Kait's going to cover COVID.

Finally, she's let up to it.

But here's another theory that I'm like, maybe.

Yeah.

So the COVID report came out from the government, less than 48 hours before this shooting.

Right.

Okay.

Now, this report, if you guys, 500 pages, I'm going to be honest, I didn't read the 500 pages, but I did go to the White House website and get the summary sheet.

Yeah.

Pretty shocking, the revelations.

I mean, some of them were like what we expected, right?

They came out and they said COVID was made in a lab.

It was released from the lab and everybody's COVID comes from the same strain in Wuhan.

Yeah.

So I'm like, okay, well, that's pretty bad, but there's more.

I didn't realize the waste, fraud and abuse, over 64 billion taxpayer dollars were lost to frauds and criminals for fraudulent relief claims, $191 billion in fraudulent unemployment claims.

The report also talked about how all the things we did like social distancing, mask mandates, and lockdowns had no scientific basis.

And now the health, the like especially the children, the children like the age are delayed, their socialization, their intelligence, their learning, their ability to socialize, their ability to handle emotions.

All of this was detrimentally impacted by these mandates that there was zero evidence for this.

They talk about the Trump era, travel restrictions being xenophobic, the Biden administration used unconstitutional methods to censor COVID content, which we now know just this week though, we got Mark Zuckerberg confirming.

Again, there was actually some pretty ugly ramifications listed.

And so this was not good, like not one person.

This came for everybody.

And then did you hear that like Biden is preemptively pardoning Fauci?

Yep.

Well guys, I just watched the Thank You Dr.

Fauci documentary.

And again, as someone who already believed a lot of this stuff, it's like more, it's more conspiratorial than even I believe.

Oh, yeah.

But yeah, Fauci definitely is not, I think, the hero that he was initially made out to be.

No, no.

And yes, the idea that he might just pardon him for anything so he can never be tried in the future is pretty messed up.

Very messed up.

But my point is that this big publication gets released by the government.

And it's like we talk about all the time where you're like we don't want people looking at this.

It's like just over there, just over there.

So is that what this was?

Was it like don't look at this, look at that?

Well, I mean, that could be why Colleen keeps saying, why is this being so publicized?

Like that could be why it's being publicized.

Like the government feeding it.

Yeah.

But then I would also argue that this probably took a bit of planning.

Like again, we're talking about, right, we're talking about hitting 50, 60 months.

And so for them to be like, this thing is coming out this week and we need to hurry up and like plan a assassination to distract people.

That's right.

That's kind of a leap.

Right.

And then the very last, the spiritual general 659 says, The man in the Starbucks photo and the shooter is RJ Martin, the roommate slash founder of the co-living community in Hawaii.

He has a PhD in American history.

Luigi was initially radicalized by him when he was vulnerable and he went along in New York City in similar clothing to distract.

RJ framed him, look at RJ, then look at the Starbucks photo with the black mask and thin eyebrows.

RJ has done several MSM interviews and admitted to suggesting the Unabomber Manifesto for their book club.

He's behind this.

Which is interesting because some of the press I saw was saying that Mangione proposed the Unabomber for the book club.

Anyway, I really couldn't, I am intrigued by this theory because the whole co-living situation in Hawaii felt very bizarre.

It's very common for Hawaii though.

I don't know, just this like, again, all these people...

You see all these influencers going to Hawaii and they all live in communes.

Well, that's also not normal.

No, I know, but that's a thing to do in Hawaii.

And then they're having a book club where they're talking about...

Like I'm not shocked about the community living in Hawaii.

I don't know, but I just feel like we don't know about this guy.

We don't know what else is happening in this communal living situation except that they had a really bizarre book club.

And so I am intrigued by Spiritual General 659's thoughts, except nothing could be fact-checked.

I couldn't even...

I didn't even know how we got to this PhD in American history.

I know nothing about his beliefs except that he is literally in every documentary talking about his friend Luigi.

So he's definitely getting his like 15 minutes of fame.

Yeah.

I did look up RJ.

We know how tall he is.

I don't think his skin tone matches.

I just don't think it...

I don't know.

That's Starbucks.

Skin tone matches.

That's Starbucks.

He does have more of like a pointed, like a straight pointed nose, like he has over his thing as opposed to...

Yeah.

Maybe you're on the same thing.

Is there the same price and build?

Maybe.

Well, how do we know?

We don't know what height they were in all these videos.

Well, like we know Luigi's height now.

Oh yeah, because everyone...

What is he 5'10?

Yeah.

Well, and when you get arrested, all your...

I know, but then everyone was like, oh, he's so dreamy, except he's only 5'10.

That was like another meme that was happening on.

Well, we'll be able to see how the trial goes.

Yeah.

Will it even make it to trial, or is it going to be like another Diddy situation?

Or another Lee Harvey Oswald situation?

Or another Epstein.

Yeah.

I don't think it will be an Epstein.

I think the prisoner is like...

You think Epstein killed himself?

No, I think Epstein was taken out.

Yeah, but who could have been the guard?

Could have been a prisoner who took...

We could do Epstein.

I mean, we got a lot to do.

That's what I'm saying.

2025 is truly the year of the conspiracy theories.

There's so much happening.

2025, the year of the conspiracy.

Like, what just happened that I was like, God, another thing.

The DB.

Cooper.

Oh, DB.

Cooper, but there's something else.

So that's about it.

That's about it about Luigi Mangione, guys.

So you still are...

You think he did it still?

I think he did it, but I think he was working with people.

Like, I think...

It is weird to think he did it all by himself.

Like, he could not have done all of that planning.

Right.

I mean, he does it...

So, like, he has a history or he has a degree, a bachelor's and a master's degree.

And a minor in math that he got in four years.

Yeah.

It's obviously very science.

He could easily have hacked his way into, like, where the schedule is for this guy.

Well, I think the schedule was...

Everyone says it was readily accessible on the Internet because it was, like, just the United Shareholders meeting.

Which is scary.

Yeah.

He had the means and the motive.

He had the means and the motive, and he had the mind.

Yeah.

He's smart.

And he had the opportunity, I guess.

Right.

But what I don't understand is, like, if you're that smart, my guy, why are you in a McDonald's 200 miles away from New York City?

With the murder weapon.

And a manifesto.

Right.

Like, that is the, that's what I don't understand.

And I also don't understand why he's pleading not guilty unless they're going with an insanity.

Or, yeah, where he's patsy.

Yeah.

I feel like if they were going to go with insanity, they'd be presenting him a little bit differently.

Well, I think she had kind of said, like, in some interview, his lawyer said that that wasn't out of, maybe before she took over as his lawyer, there was some clip where she said, perhaps it'll be a guilty by insanity plea.

So I think that's where that's coming from.

And what do you think, Colleen, are you still meant to be?

I mean, I just think it's not, it's a possibility.

Like everything's a possibility.

I don't know.

I just find there's too many gaps to be able to declare 100% one way or the other.

So it'll be interesting to see how it falls out.

Yeah, I still don't know.

I think, I mean, I hope we get to, I mean, I don't want him to be worshiped, but I hope we get a live trial so we can see what it is that the prosecution has.

But yeah, I'm not, I mean, I feel like I really could go either way.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's like, we get answers to some of these questions and he did it.

But I also maybe lean more toward, yeah, like we said, if he did it, I don't mean, you know, probably didn't do it alone.

I don't know.

It just seems like.

I know it's very clean and tidy.

Yes, it's too clean and tidy.

That's why I think he is working with someone and he's trying to cover that person up.

Or maybe it's the whole surf community.

You don't know.

Very weird, very cultish.

I did see on the TMZ documentary, so that's a great source.

But there were people they interviewed who apparently he had traveled in Asia with, who said that he was at the shooting range and stuff.

I'm like, okay, okay.

I don't know.

I just, yeah, I don't know.

He also shot so closely in range.

Yeah.

Well, at first, they were like, this is a professional hit man.

And then later on, they were like, oh no, he was about two feet closer than he should have been, and he didn't check the pulse before he left.

And what if Mangione is the one who's taking the fall on purpose?

Like he's working with someone and taking the fall.

Yeah, but why would he take the fall for it?

Like what do they have?

No, I bet he's easily can multiple.

Yeah, like what if?

I mean, his brain is, his frontal lobe is not fully formed.

Right.

And if he's what?

What if that video is like the guy was here all night, but like they purposefully had him move around the city?

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Right.

This like, oh, bop over to Starbucks, bop over here.

Like, what if that was all just-

Meanwhile, RJ is the one shooting.

Right.

Or maybe not.

I mean, I don't want to, I just like threw that name out.

I don't know.

One guy is shooting him.

Well, while he's just the distracter, who's like popping the taxis and whatever.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Anyway, but-

Interesting.

Regardless.

However, it was done, I just don't think it was-

It looks more like, this guy, I mean, he looks Italian.

This guy looks like-

Yeah, she's pointing to Mangione in the hostel.

Right.

But we're thinking the guy with the mask at Starbucks.

That's the one that he's saying, could be RJ, could be-

And he does have a different nose there.

And his-

I think he looks like Arab.

He has a thinner nose and he does have like thinner eyebrows.

Thinner eyebrows.

It looks like a different eye, like his eyelashes are different.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm going back and forth, guys.

The eyebrow theory is the one that's throwing me off.

That's the one.

Yeah.

Well, also suspicious is, I was seen on social media and I did fact-check this on NBC and on the Daily Mail that there was a man, he was like a food cart vendor who was at the scene.

He said, there's like a food cart vendor who said he didn't hear the shots, but he did see this guy all night.

So he's like, there was a man loitering all night in a car, but then when they released the timeline, they said that he had only been present for like less than 10 minutes before he shot Brian Thompson.

Which also the timeline was kind of weird because Brian Thompson was like leaving his hotel and he walked to the Hilton.

And so for this guy to show up, again, for his story to match with the Starbucks trip and all of that, he showed up like five minutes before Brian Thompson showed up and then he shot him.

And I feel like that's poor planning.

For someone who's like so meticulous, you could have missed him.

He could have come early to go get a coffee or something.

So I feel like I would have been out there longer and regardless, they're claiming that this suspect was out there all night, which does not match up with the official story we're getting from the police.

So I'll be a witness in the case.

Anyway, can't wait to hear more about this.

Hopefully we get more information.

Right.

So if anyway, what I want you guys to do right now is to take out your phone.

If you enjoyed this episode, share it with somebody that you think would also enjoy this episode.

Go ahead and text it to them, share it on your social media account, something like that.

And yeah.

Okay.

Sounds good.

We'll see you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday, guys.