Boeing Safety Issues and Whistleblower Deaths

**Discussion begins at 4:15**

Since 1916, Boeing has been synonymous with safety and reliability.  The company was responsible for the production of 100,000 airplanes for Allied Forces in WW2, the production of Air Force One, and revolutionizing air travel.  The slogan was, “If it’s not Boeing, I’m not going”.  Following a merger with McDonnell Douglas, experts agree that the company had a culture shift, in which perhaps finances were prioritized over safety.  This all came to a head when Boeing did a rapid roll out of the 737 Max, in an attempt to keep up with their only competition, Airbus.  Following a slew of poor decisions, there were two plane crashes, with 346 deaths.  Since that time, a number of employees have come forward to report safety issues with Boeing and it's contractor, Spirit Aerosystems.  Things had been relatively quiet for Boeing, until last year when a number of safety issues brought them back into the news.  Following a 2.5 billion dollar loss, 50,000 lay offs, and a drop in stocks by 26% in the first quarter, two of the Boeing whistleblowers died under mysterious circumstances within 2 months of each other.  Were these just unfortunate tragedies?  Or was Boeing behind the mysterious deaths?

Transcript

Hey, guys.

Hello.

Happy 2025.

Oh, my God.

You just get two SchemeQueens today.

Yeah, we're missing Kait.

Because she said her name.

She's in New York right now.

She's investigating the-

Luigi.

Luigi.

Guys, I cannot wait to talk about Luigi in the future.

That's not what we're talking about today, obviously.

We're talking Luigi next week.

This is a spoiler alert.

I'm pro Luigi.

What mudda?

Are you like supporting Luigi or like pro-

I think they have enough proof on him.

Yeah, I don't think they got the right guy either.

Yeah, I really don't.

I think he is having a mental breakdown.

Don't get me wrong.

But I don't think they can prove it was him.

Did you see the pictures that are side by side?

Yeah, with the facial features.

No, not that.

The pictures, the perp walk, and it's like next to Oswald's picture.

Yeah.

What do we call a Patsy?

A Patsy.

We talked about that, didn't we?

Yeah, we did a whole, we did two JFK episodes.

Oh yeah, JFK was Lee.

I think I thought Lee Harvey Oswald was Abraham Lincoln.

Who killed Abraham Lincoln?

John Wilkes Booth.

And you know, the person who killed John Wilkes Booth is from the small town of Concordia, Kansas, where my great-grandparents.

The serial killers, which one?

Don't you have a fear?

No, that's the other side of the family.

That's one, it's one man.

You were just destined to be in crime, not crime, but like in...

You're just obsessed with true crime.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Colleen, take over for Kait.

What should we do?

Okay, here we go.

Let me put my mask on.

Okay, so scroll on down, give us a five-star review.

If you think we're that good, like, comment, interact.

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So come interact.

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Yeah.

Stop right now and share this episode with two people you know that will be taking a plane this week.

Ooh, or maybe don't.

Or maybe don't.

Yeah.

Listen to the episode and then decide.

So is it time for our drink check?

Drink check.

All right.

Today.

We're drinking risky today.

Well, it's always a risk with you because I never know if you're going to make a face.

Yeah.

We are drinking Old House Vineyards, the Melange.

It's like a red blend, but it's usually consumed over ice.

It's consumed cold.

So my kind of drink.

And I thought this sounds like Colleen.

Yeah.

I mean, it just tastes like ice cold red wine.

But like, he said a little Sangria-ish maybe.

Yeah.

I feel like it needs a splash of juice, like a little bit of cranberry and then a little bit of orange.

And then it would be a perfect drink.

Well, then it would be a Sangria.

Yeah.

So let's get into it.

Let's fly on in.

Just so everyone understands, we did, we covered Boeing back in the spring.

Kait and I did it virtually.

It was the first virtual recording we'd ever done.

We had them audio.

It wasn't our best.

Yeah.

No.

And so we have since, you know, hold it and we are going to re-record today.

There's a lot of Boeing updates.

So we'll talk about it.

Yeah, it's a good one.

And since I talked to Kait about this eight months ago, it's going to be interesting now.

This is all news to Colleen.

This will be my perspective.

I want to know like what questions I'm going to ask that she also asked.

Okay.

So we'll get into it again.

This is our Boeing take two.

Since 1916, Boeing has been synonymous with safety and reliability.

The company was responsible for the production of 100,000 airplanes for Allied Forces in World War II, the production of Air Force One, and revolutionizing air travel.

The slogan was, if it's not Boeing, I'm not going.

Following a merger with McDonnell Douglas, experts agree that the company had a culture shift in which perhaps finances were prioritized over safety.

This all came to a head when Boeing did a rapid rollout of the 737 MAX in an attempt to keep up with their only competition, Airbus.

Following a slew of poor decisions, there were two plane crashes with 346 deaths.

Since that time, a number of employees have come forward to report safety issues with Boeing and its contractor Spirit Aerosystems.

Things had been relatively quiet for Boeing until last year when there were a number of safety issues that brought them back into the news.

Following a $2.5 billion loss, 50,000 layoffs and a drop in stocks by 26% in the first quarter of 2020, 24, two of the Boeing whistleblowers died under mysterious circumstances within two months of each other.

Were these just unfortunate tragedies or was Boeing behind the mysterious deaths?

Oh, my God.

There's really two conspiracies around Boeing that we'll get into.

The first one, as I mentioned, is really like why has Boeing got away with what they've gotten away with for so long?

Like being cheap?

Well, we'll talk about it.

But yeah, we're just like so many safety issues and like the FAA keeps inspecting them, but like nothing comes of it because are they in the FAA's pocket?

I mean, we pretty much they pretty much have a monopoly.

We are completely dependent on them for.

So a hundred percent they are.

So is that why they're getting away with it?

So there's kind of we've got a whole kind of conspiracy there.

And then the second one is kind of a throwback to last summer when we had a couple of whistleblowers who died mysteriously.

And the question was, was Boeing taking them out?

Oh my god.

So that's what we're going to talk about.

So what I didn't realize is that Boeing is the company that makes the planes.

Correct.

And then they make different types of planes.

Yeah, I'm going to tell you about that.

OK, because Airbus is another company.

There's two companies that are responsible for all of the airplanes that we have.

So again, as I kind of touched on, Boeing has been around for over a hundred years, and in that time, it has developed a reputation for safety and reliability.

It is the fourth largest defense contractor, having recorded $62.3 billion in sales in 2021 and ranking 54th on the Fortune 500 list.

It was founded in 1916 in Seattle, Washington, by lumber industrialist William Boeing.

So fun fact, Boeing actually created United Airlines, but then in 1934, there was this law that required aircraft manufacturing and air transportation to be separate.

United Airlines branched off, but that's how it started.

Boeing was responsible for 100,000 planes for the Allied Forces in World War II.

It partnered with NASA for space travel.

They're responsible for building Air Force One, developing commercial satellite launching services and revolutionizing aviation.

So these are all good things that are critical to our nation, right?

Then at the end of the 21st century, McDonnell Douglas and Boeing merged.

So McDonnell Douglas was not known for its safety.

The documentaries describe a, quote, clash of corporate cultures where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas' bean counters went head to head, and the latter one.

So that's when the ship seems to have started.

So if you think about it this way, if you have the engineers in charge, they're going to create safe but overpriced products.

If the bean counters are in charge, they're going to be focused on profits and shareholders, and they're going to turn out products that can be made quick and cheap.

So initially, everything was happening in Seattle, and then Boeing moved their headquarters from Seattle to Chicago and now to Arlington.

And they're in Arlington, Virginia, just down the road.

Really?

And so people think this also contributes to the downfall because you no longer have the engineers and the money makers in the same place.

So now there's just like no communication, there's no balance, and quality just goes out the window.

So again, as we kind of touched on, there are really only two producers of airliners.

We have Boeing and we have Airbus.

Isn't that kind of terrifying that we depend on two companies?

Yeah.

So Boeing released at 737, and then Airbus comes out with the A320, which was a more cutting-edge, fuel-efficient plane.

And so now Boeing's trying to compete, and so they come back with the 737 MAX in 2016.

But in order to get the MAX rolled out quickly, they had to cut corners.

So the design phase was shortened, which led to safety and quality issues.

And then the bigger issue is that because they wanted to roll out so quickly, they said, maybe we can just repurpose our 737, like upgrade it and make it a 737 MAX, okay?

But the engine for the 737 MAX was too heavy for the 737.

Oh, no.

So it would have caused the plane to kind of go ass down all the time, right?

With the heavy engine.

So they installed the system called the MCAS, and this was a sensor on the exterior of the plane.

It would detect and prevent tipping.

So they're going to put the engine on it anyways?

So they're going to use the engine, but they're going to create the sensor that's going to help keep the plane balanced.

Okay.

And then they also were like, because we need a big, if this is a whole new plane, then we have, all of the pilots have to get trained on how to fly it.

Airlines are not going to want to buy a new plane if it's going to require all of their pilots to be upgraded.

So Boeing says, if you can fly the 737, you can fly the MAX.

Here's an iPad video for you to watch.

Oh my God.

And you're good to go.

And that was it?

Correct.

And they didn't tell the pilots in this brief training about that MCAS.

Oh.

So.

Oh my God.

2018 is when the Boeing drama really starts.

October 29th, 2018, Lion Air Flight 610 crashed into the Java Sea 13 minutes after takeoff, killing all 189 souls on board.

The investigation revealed that if anything like maybe a balloon hits the sensor, then the MCAS would be activated and try to like overcompensate.

So the MCAS fixes the plane automatically, like without the pilot doing it?

Correct.

Pilots at this point weren't even trained.

They didn't even know this MCAS existed.

Yeah.

So they think that that was the cause of the accident.

It's probably like something hit this sensor, caused it to like over correct and led to this crash.

The Allied Pilots Association, which is like the union, they meet with Boeing and Boeing is like, yeah, we're working on the software fix.

It's going to be out in six weeks.

And the pilots say, well, maybe we should like ground all these planes for six weeks until this update.

And they said, no.

And they were like, no, we don't even really know that it wasn't like a pilot related issue.

We're not even 100% sure that the MCAS failed and that was it.

So no need to ground these planes.

Who is the safety inspection?

Well, there's not really safety inspectors now.

Oh my God.

That's what we're learning from all these whistleblowers.

It's like hospitals have JCO.

What do we have for planes?

We have the FAA.

Oh, but we're in the pocket of them.

That's the theory.

About five months later, March 10th, 2019, Ethiopian Airlines flight 302 crashed six minutes after takeoff, killing all 157 souls on board.

Oh my God.

And the difference here is that the pilot, which Captain Fred would say had minimal flying hours, they're under his belt, that's part of the problem.

But he actually had heard about the MCAS because he'd been following all this news.

And so even knowing that and he tried to override it and take over, but there was like so much momentum, he just couldn't compensate for it.

And so there's this massive crash.

So as a result of these two accidents, Boeing ended up paying out a $2.5 billion settlement to avoid criminal conviction for charges of fraud over hiding information from safety regulators.

So there was a criminal monetary penalty of $243.6 million, $1.77 billion in damages to airline customers, and then a $500 million crash victim beneficiaries fund.

Oh my God.

And actually Trump ended up grounding all of the 737 MAXs.

This is the only airplane ever grounded by a president.

That was kind of all this drama in 2017, 2018, okay?

And as part of this whole like kind of glee deal, they're supposed to be making all of these safety improvements.

Right.

Okay.

Things kind of remained relatively quiet for Boeing initially after that.

It sounds like people within the aviation industry had been kind of concerned about a decline in Boeing safety, but it was just kind of like an open secret.

No one was really addressing it.

Then all of a sudden, January 2024, Boeing gets back into the spotlight.

We get all this attention.

Okay.

The first incident was when that door plug flew out of a Boeing, the Alaska Airlines flight mid-flight, and nobody was injured, but everyone was like, what's going on?

We got to investigate Boeing.

Right.

An FAA report published the following month concluded that the company had not made enough strides improving its safety culture since the two crashes that killed 346 people.

The FAA interviewed hundreds of employees for the report, with allegations made that the company was cutting corners, ignoring problems, and threatening employees who spoke up.

During these testimonies, NTSB reported that Boeing still had not provided all the requested records related to the Alaska incident, because Boeing was like, well, we can't find those records.

It's like, I'll just...

And no one's calling them on this.

On March 1st, the FAA flagged more potential safety issues with the engines of the 737 MAX and the 787 Dreamliner, although it does not ground either aircraft.

Also on March 1st, the State Department fined Boeing $51 million for violating the Arms Export Control Act, allowing employees in China and other countries to download sensitive data from numerous defense aircraft and missiles.

So this isn't even part of their general safety issues we need to address.

We got some national security issues happening here also.

Throughout early 2024, there were reports of wheels falling off and depressurizations occurring.

You probably remember all of this in the news at the beginning of last year, right?

The story I really liked is that there was a safety slide that fell off of a Delta plane and it washed up, this is so ironic, right in front of the home of an attorney who was suing Boeing over safety issues.

Oh my God, what a big win for him.

So despite dozens of reported incidents, yeah, we shouldn't, we shouldn't assume, despite dozens of reported incidents, they never halted the production of the 737 MAX.

They just put a limit on how many they could produce until the safety standards were met.

So again.

Okay, but why are you producing them if they're not safe?

Yeah, it's okay.

It's gonna be a waste of money.

You grab them, you know?

Yeah, it's my god.

So absurd.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Also, how often is an airline buying a plane?

That's a good question.

You know what I mean?

Like how often are they making these?

Like how many Boeing planes are made in a year?

Well, they currently have a half a trillion dollars in contracts that they have not been able to fulfill because they're so behind.

I'm gonna get that.

In production?

Yeah.

Between COVID and the safety issues and then there was a strike.

But like one plane's gotta be good for a decade.

Like a car?

Yeah.

I mean, we'll talk about one of these recent crashes last week.

The plane was like 20 years old.

That's crazy.

Oh, and now I'm gonna really think about what planes I'm gonna get out again.

Are you gonna be like, is this new?

Maybe you don't have to be new.

Maybe you want it to be a whole.

I want the old ones.

Yeah.

I want to know it's made a couple of flights.

So then in May, the Department of Justice filed charges against Boeing and Boeing actually pled guilty to defrauding the US by failing to comply with the agreements following the Boeing 737 Max crashes.

So as part of this plea deal, Boeing agreed to pay a $243.6 million fine.

So they'd already paid out a $243.6 million fine.

So they're going to pay out that fine again, because they didn't get their needs.

But wait, this is the plea deal.

Okay.

So, and then they're going to invest $455 million in compliance and safety.

But just this month, or I guess last month in December, the judge rejected the plea deal, claiming that it did not sufficiently address the harm done to the victim's family, included insufficient accountability and lack of direct consequences, and inadequate victim compensation.

So, good for this judge.

They said no.

That's crazy.

Might be one of the first people who's holding them accountable.

So, in the meantime, Boeing workers went on strike in November over wages, which caused a halt in production and cost Boeing over $5 billion.

Good for them.

Yeah.

Per the FAA, there have been over 200 Boeing whistleblower reports regarding safety issues related to mismanagement of parts, poor manufacturing, and sloppy inspections of Boeing in 2024.

Recently, like within the last month, there was a new whistleblower who came out claiming that Boeing was using faulty or non-conforming parts to keep the assembly line moving and meet delivery targets.

My God.

Who's the main CEO of Boeing?

There's a new one.

There always is a new one, I feel like.

But you know, there was something about at one point, like the head of the FAA was a former Boeing CEO.

Okay, that can't be right.

That's not the case anymore.

It cannot be right.

It's not the case anymore.

How is that legal?

So Boeing has a new CEO as of August, Kelly Ortberg.

Oh, okay.

Hop off girl power, but although it's a boy.

Oh, damn.

Nevermind.

Okay, boy's name Kelly.

Yeah.

Odd.

Okay, so December 28th, there were three accidents.

That's crazy.

All in one day?

Yeah.

All Boeing.

Well, no.

So there was one in Canada that was a hydraulic failure.

It landed.

There were no injuries.

No injuries.

And I looked into that one, and that was actually not Boeing.

Okay.

So check.

Check.

Thank you.

Next.

Now, December 28th, a KLM flight, which was a 737, not a 737 Max, but a 737, experienced a hydraulics failure shortly after takeoff from Oslo Airport heading to Amsterdam.

They had to perform an emergency landing.

The plane actually veered off the side of the runway into some grass before stopping.

Emergency crews responded.

There were no injuries.

Oh my God, the way I would be panicking.

Also, one inconvenience to your travel day.

Like, I would be-

Probably just happy to be alive.

So mad.

First, I'd be like, thank God I'm alive.

Then I'd be like, how the hell am I getting to my trip?

I think they're going to get you there.

Oh my God.

And you trust them.

Yeah, I get me.

Maybe you just want to like, take a boat.

Is that your sign?

Oh, I'm taking a cruise across the Atlantic.

You'd rather be in the ocean.

No, but no, this is a side plot.

Me and my cousin Becky are going to take the cruise across the Atlantic.

Okay.

It'll be like the Titanic.

I said it'll be a tax write-off.

Okay.

And then the big one we all heard about was on December 29th, the following day, 179 people aged three to 78.

Oh, three year olds?

Died when a Boeing 737 crashed.

The Jeju air flight was in route from Bangkok when it touched down without deploying landing gears, veered off the runway and slammed into a concrete wall.

So there were two employees in the tail section of the plane that survived, like the two flight attendants who were in the very, very back.

They lived.

Yeah.

Those were the only people who lived.

One has some paralysis, last I heard, and one has some fractures.

Oh my God.

Can you imagine being the survivor guilt?

What that tells you is the place to be is the back of the bus.

And the back of the plane.

Well, for landing, at least.

Yeah.

We don't really know really what happened here, okay?

The air traffic controller had issued a bird strike warning at 8:54 a.m.

Five minutes later, the pilot declared a May day at 8:59 a.m.

Oh my God.

And landed the plane at 9:03 a.m.

So because there had been this bird strike warning, people assume maybe that was what had happened, but we see no evidence.

What's a bird strike?

Sully who landed on the Hudson was because both of their engines were taken out by birds.

Oh my God.

I didn't realize that was a risk.

New fear unlocked.

Yeah.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

It's the government.

The birds aren't real.

So anyway, so there has been kind of this thing floating about a bird strike, but again, we have no evidence that only comes from the fact that the air traffic controller had issued a warning.

They were able to recover the flight data and cockpit voice recorder, so hopefully we'll eventually will have more information.

The investigation is ongoing.

They've said it's going to take months, maybe years.

Who's doing the research?

Boeing?

The local Korean government.

Because we can't trust Boeing.

We can't trust Boeing.

This is just another question, but you don't have to actually research this.

I'm just thinking out loud.

Where are they making these planes?

Is there just a manufacturing place in like middle America?

Yeah.

So I can tell you this.

I can tell you.

Because planes are big.

The Airbus headquarters are also, they're in Hurton, Virginia, so both of these are in Northern Virginia.

I feel like we would have seen them.

I know like in Charleston, there's a big Boeing factory there, and I'd used to drive by it all the time up Carolina.

We're gonna talk a little bit about the Charleston factory.

Because then it's like, how do they get the planes to the airports?

They just fly them?

Like planes to the airlines, they just fly them?

Yeah.

Oh my God.

Now I'm gonna be thinking about empty planes in the sky that were just built.

When we did our chem trails, Yeah.

You know, we saw all those pictures of them.

Oh yeah, because they were delivering planes, right?

It was part of it.

Because they had to do the test runs with the weights.

I forgot all about that.

I'd want to be like a pilot for the manufacturing company.

Who just gets to deliver them?

You don't have to talk to people.

Yeah, that would be nice.

I mean, you're always talking to the air traffic controller.

That's true.

You're a co-pilot.

That's crazy.

I will say Captain Fred is a big Boeing supporter.

I don't really understand why he's so passionate.

He's very passionate.

He says, as a man who flew Boeing for decades, I always trusted them.

He's no longer flying.

Yeah, so it's like you can cut your ties there.

It's a new generation.

But he did, I actually heard about the Korea crash because he texted me in the morning already with like a...

He was ready.

With like a, this is why it's not Boeing's fault.

So he says that the initial reports was that this was also a hydraulic failure.

So why are all these hydraulic failures occurring?

Red flag, who was making the hydraulics?

But you can manually override a hydraulic failure.

It just take within a matter of minutes, you can override the hydraulic system and extend your landing gear manually.

But we know when you look at the 737 coming down, that the landing gear was not down.

We have footage of it or whatever?

Yes, we're looking at the plane.

Someone was actually filming, happened to be filming this.

Oh my God, that's awful.

They captured all those people's deaths.

Also, to be clear, this was not a MAX.

This was built in 2009 before sort of that downfall of Boeing when they merged with McDonnell Douglas.

So maybe it has nothing to do with Boeing.

Red flag.

So I guess what I've talked about so far has mostly covered kind of that first part of the conspiracy theory I mentioned, right?

So like the question again about why has Boeing gotten away with these safety issues for so long?

Like if you got rid of Boeing, our air travel is done.

Yeah.

It's kaput.

Yeah, and it's like the cost of air travel right now is already so high.

It's going to be like through the roof, you're not going to get an airplane ticket.

A Seattle Times analysis found that more than 90% of safety complaints from 2020 to 2023 ended with no violation found by the FAA while whistleblowers reported them at great personal and professional risk.

In June, the head of the FAA testified at a Senate committee hearing and said the FAA's approach before the midair incident was too hands off, too focused on paperwork audits and not focused enough on inspections.

We will utilize the full extent of our enforcement authority to ensure Boeing is held accountable for any non-compliance.

We currently have multiple active investigations into Boeing and are processing a number of reports filed by whistleblowers.

I'm glad the FAA as of June was really like, we're going to start taking things seriously now.

Yeah.

And then like three more crashes.

But also kind of crazy that they're saying 90% of so employees are whistleblowing, right?

We're going to talk about how a lot of them are like losing their jobs over this and getting punished.

So it's not like just fun for them to whistleblow.

No, they're literally.

And so if you're saying that we have all these reports from whistleblowers and 90% of those the FAA determined weren't really issues, like I just find that hard to believe.

No, because these people lost their jobs by speaking.

Yeah, I think it's like more likely you guys just don't want to find issues.

Oh, I don't like it at all.

Something feels dirty.

You have plane manufacturing is really interesting to me now.

Well, I told you Boeing has a backlog of over half a trillion dollars now because of the COVID or COVID.

And then they had layoffs and then the strike and the, you know, all the lines.

After another.

And yeah, so now they're really backlogged.

And so again, we really afford for the FAA to shut them down.

I don't think so.

We're like in a pickle here.

Other kind of couple interesting, not quite the same as the as the Boeing, you know, commercial airlines and the 737, the 737, 737 Max, but a couple of fun little tidbits for you.

The United States Air Force contracted with Boeing to replace the Air Force One planes, two Air Force One planes, okay?

$3.9 billion deal they made.

And it was supposed to be delivered.

$1 billion deal for an Air Force One.

$1.9 billion to create Air Force One, two Air Force One planes.

Oh my God.

This was supposed to, the delivery date on this was January 2020.

Oh.

We have still not seen.

Oh no.

These new planes.

So, I will say, there's like a DOD.

We need a new plane if we've gone on for another four years.

To be clear, this is like a collaboration with the DOD, White House, Air Force, Boeing.

We know the government is slow.

They've had all these issues, but like, dang, come on now.

We're now five years late.

That's crazy.

And then the Starliner.

So, in June, Sunita Williams and Barry Wilmore, these are two astronauts, they are launched into space.

Wait, are these the ones still up there?

Yes.

Did you see the Mandela effect about them?

What?

Oh, I saw the thing that people were like, how did she have a Christmas hat?

Well, yeah, but then everybody was like, I swear we saw them get rescued already, but they're still in space.

No, it's just like Mandela, huh?

I thought I saw them get rescued.

Nope, they are still in space.

So, in June, Sunita Williams and Barry Wilmore launched into space on an eight-day mission on the Boeing story.

It was supposed to only be eight days.

Eight days.

They are still there now, seven months later.

So, there were mechanical issues with the plane.

When are they getting back?

That's the question.

Oh, my God.

How are we not more worried about them?

That's what I'm saying.

They're stranded in space.

So, this should be on the news every day to their home.

The...

Bring them home.

Bring them home.

There are mechanical issues on the Starliner going there.

Oh, my God.

Then they did actually...

We actually...

The Starliner did, in fact, return by itself.

Without them?

Without them.

Oh, my God.

Because they weren't sure it was going to be safe.

So, it returned.

Oh, my God.

I'd rather get on the plane and die in space.

It returned in September and actually it made it here fine.

So, what, are they going to send it back out?

No, they're going to get picked up.

Yeah, SpaceX is going to bring them back.

Wow.

When?

Within the next few months.

Oh, my God.

This is ridiculous.

Those poor people, how are they eating?

This is totally sideline plotting.

Sorry.

I'm just so, I had no idea they were still there.

Yes.

I didn't know it was only an eight-day trip.

Yeah.

I'm so concerned for them.

Yeah.

That's terrifying.

So, NASA has said they will return in 2025.

It will not be aboard the Starliner.

Oh, my God.

All right.

So, now let's sidetrack into, again, when we initially recorded this, it was right around the time of some suspicious deaths.

So, let me remind you about those, okay?

Right.

So, if we kind of rewind to, I said, early 2024, we're having all of these cases of wheels falling off, of exterior panels flying off, right?

The exit, depressurization, all kinds of drama.

So, as all of these safety issues are being brought to the public's attention, a review of OSHA records revealed a total of 32 whistleblowers had come forward to complain to regulatory authorities that there had been retaliations against those who raise safety concerns against the company.

And so, this is not, these are just, this is just OSHA.

This is not like FAA, right?

These are just people who were saying, I whistleblowed, I whistle blew.

Yeah, pass sense of whistleblow, please.

Whistle blew?

I came forward and I was punished.

So then OSHA gets to report them.

Yeah, so this was over three years.

Of those 32 people who had complained, two of them died within a short period of time.

Oh, I don't like that.

Mysterious circumstance.

What were they whistleblowing?

That was different than the others.

Well, let me tell you about each of those, okay?

And again, also to note, like this is only based, like I said, only based on OSHA records.

A lot of times, aviation whistleblower cases are handled by the FAA or the NTSB.

Interesting.

So former Boeing engineer Ed Pearson said, I'm not gonna sugarcoat this.

This is a criminal cover-up.

Records do in fact exist.

I know this because I personally passed them to the FBI Tried to get if, oh, this is, I'm sorry, this is going back.

So talking about some of these kind of whistleblower statements, okay?

All these people are coming forward.

They're like, we're having safety issues.

Former Boeing engineer Ed Pearson said, I'm not gonna sugarcoat this.

This is a criminal cover-up.

Records do in fact exist.

I know this because I've personally passed them to the FBI.

I tried to get a factory to shut down production to fix safety issues, but they didn't listen.

Boeing quality engineer Sam Salipour, he's been an employee since 2007.

He claimed Boeing knew about defective parts and assembly problems, but opted to maximize profits over addressing issues that would slow down production and cost money to fix.

He said that despite writing numerous memos regarding his concerns, he was silenced, claiming, quote, My boss said I would have killed someone who said what you said in that meeting.

Oh, my God.

He testified that more than a thousand Boeing planes were in danger of structural failure.

In the 787 lines, tiny gaps had been improperly filled in 98.7% of his inspected planes, and 80% of those gaps contained debris, which could result in a fire.

He reported that the 777 had severe misalignment of airplane parts, and he literally saw people jumping on the pieces of the airplane to get them to align.

So this is feeling like IKEA is building airplanes.

Oh, my God.

So this spawned an FAA investigation.

Now, John Barnett, he's one of our first victims.

He's a Boeing quality manager from the Charleston, South Carolina plant.

He'd worked for Boeing for 32 years before retiring.

That's really sad.

It is.

After he retired, he came out accusing the company of cutting corners, using substandard parts, and ignoring safety concerns.

He claimed that there was dangerous debris not removed from jets and issues with the emergency oxygen system.

He also reported that the company had retaliated against him in the past.

Because he's tried to report a couple of times now.

Yeah.

He had had a hearing with the Department of Labor, Administrative Law Judges seeking damages from Boeing for harassment, lost pay, and emotional distress.

He had first filed this complaint in 2022, based on a period of time between 2010 and 2017.

He had worked for Boeing in Seattle, and he was sent by Boeing to the new North Charleston plant to oversee the quality control of the Dreamliner production.

The focus, he thought, went from safety in Washington, which is kind of what we touched on, right?

In Seattle, everyone's together.

And then when he went to South Carolina, he's like, oh my gosh, there's a completely different mentality here.

We're focusing more on schedule and speed of production as opposed to safety.

He said, I was told to let manufacturing do what they want.

It was constant pressure to keep the line moving.

In Puget Sound, we had one inspector for nine mechanics.

The first thing they did in Charleston was get rid of the ratio.

At times, it was 1 to 50 or 1 to 100.

Just run flat out over quality and let manufacturing do what they want.

Apparently, they even allowed self-inspection, which I mentioned earlier.

Self-inspection.

So the worker would do his work and then inspect his own.

No.

So not good.

He said he was instructed to not document defects, not to put quality concerns in writing.

It was constant every day, every day, every day.

I was pushing back to follow the quality system.

He didn't like that and pretty much wanted me out.

He told me to work in the gray area, which I don't care how you spin it, means work outside the process.

There are no gray areas in quality management.

He filed an ethics complaint against his boss who retaliated by failing him on his 2014 performance review.

Oh my God.

He moved him to materials review segregation area or MRSA, which this whole thing gave me L5s of like when he gets sent to toy testing.

Yeah.

Like you're, you're just slowing us down.

So go over there.

Yeah.

While in MRSA, he realizes that they aren't documenting per FAA requirements, any piece that fails has to be reported, but they were just dumping hundreds of pieces.

And just not reporting it.

Without reporting them.

He started getting over 20 calls a day from his boss harassing him and alleges he was blackballed from any other job he applied for.

He said he applied, he was like, I got to get out of Boeing and he applied everywhere.

He also reported getting medical retirement and then being unable to even apply for another job to severe anxiety.

So this was all, these were all of his complaints, right?

And he is testifying before the Department of Labor Administrative Law judges about his being punished for whistleblowing.

Right.

So he had testified for 12 hours over two days.

He was scheduled to return for a third day of testimony, but he never arrived.

His lawyers did a wellness check on him and he was found dead by the Holiday Inn in an orange Dodge Ram with a pistol in his hand and a white piece of paper resembling a note.

Oh, he killed himself?

The Charleston Corner reported the cause of death appeared to be a self-inflicted gun wound, but his former co-workers don't believe it.

Oh, I bet they killed him.

He knew way too much.

Well, we'll talk about it.

He knew way too much.

A friend of his, now this, I can't really, this is like a quote in multiple sources, but this buddy of his claims that before he died, he told him, I ain't scared, but if anything happens to me, it's not suicide.

Oh my God.

His lawyer said, John was in the midst of a deposition in his whistleblower retaliation cage, which finally was nearing the end.

He was in very good spirits and really looking forward to putting this phase of his life behind him and moving on.

We didn't see any indication he would take his own life.

No one can believe it.

Oh my God.

I don't believe it.

He definitely got killed.

Before he died, he had said it had taken a serious mental and emotional toll on him, but he said the safety of the airplanes rolling off the production line remained his main focus.

That's what my story is about.

It's telling my story enough to where the right people get involved and make sure that these airplanes are made correctly because the 787 carries 288 passengers plus crew.

So the last thing I want to do is wake up in the morning and see a 787 has gone down because one of the problems I identified.

I mean, it just keeps me up at night.

I feel like Boeing probably threatened him in one way and he killed himself in response to the threat or something like that.

I bet they had something on him and he was just like, I can't handle one more thing.

Well, let me tell you the other story and then we can kind of discuss what we think about these deaths.

But I will say Boeing released a statement, we are saddened by Mr.

Barnett's passing and our thoughts continue to be with his family and friends.

Bullshit.

Boeing reviewed and addressed quality issues that Mr.

Barnett raised before he retired in 2017, as well as other quality issues referred to in the complaint.

A journal analysis determined the issues he raised did not affect airplane safety.

We will refer you to OSHA related to their assessment in 2020 that Boeing did not violate Mr.

Barnett's whistleblower protections.

We encourage all employees to speak up when issues arise, retaliation is strictly prohibited at Boeing.

But, and yet they have a bunch of examples of retaliation.

So this is suspicious, but the next one, even more suspicious.

Oh no.

So we have Joshua Dean, who was a 45 year old.

Look at this picture, isn't that a young, healthy looking guy?

Yeah.

Yeah, he's pretty thick.

Yeah, he looks like somebody who works out and is, I mean, we can never even tell.

He's a beefcake.

Can never tell, but yeah.

Yeah, one can assume.

He's got some guns.

He lifts.

So he worked for Spirit Aero Systems, which was a Boeing supplier.

Is that different than Spirit Airlines?

Correct.

He worked for Spirit Aero Systems, which was a Boeing supplier that ended up being acquired by Boeing last year.

Okay.

So now all part of Boeing.

He worked for Spirit since 2019, was briefly laid off during the pandemic, but came back in 2021.

He had actually come forward in 2022 before the Alaska Airlines issue when the panel blew off, and he reported improperly drilled holes in the fuselage and had given a deposition in a shareholder lawsuit accusing Spirit of concealing production issues.

He had also filed a complaint with the FAA, alleging serious and gross misconduct by senior quality management of the 737 production line at Spirit.

Oh, man.

He said, It is known at Spirit that if you make too much noise and cause too much trouble, you will be moved.

It doesn't mean you completely disregard stuff, but they don't want you to find everything and write it up.

So he was fired in April of 2023, allegedly for failing to identify a separate safety issue.

He filed a complaint to the FAA, alleging that he was made a scapegoat while Spirit did nothing to inform regulators and the public of the concerns he had flagged.

He had also filed a complaint with Department of Labor.

This was retaliation for reporting his aviation safety concerns.

Dean's former colleague, Lance Thompson, publicly backed Dean's claim saying that the production deadlines were prioritized over safety at Spirit's Wichita plant and that managers encouraged workers to hide defects.

So this guy, healthy 45-year-old living in Wichita, Kansas, he develops progressive shortness of breath, goes to the hospital.

Oh no, they're poisoning him slowly.

Sounds like he had a few weeks of critical illness where he was treated for Influenza B and Mercer pneumonia.

I don't know how this guy got Mercer pneumonia.

He was intubated.

Mercer pneumonia?

Listen, I know that we're hearing in the press about all these people dying of pneumonia, but normal healthy young people.

Shouldn't be dying of pneumonia.

No.

And maybe very rarely, I don't know, but I'm like the number of people, we go to the Diddy, all these people died of pneumonia.

I'm like, that's not normal.

No, that's not normal.

I bet he was poisoned.

He was intubated, put on dialysis and ECMO.

Oh, he was sick.

And then there's some comments that like when he was hospitalized, he maybe had a stroke and they were maybe gonna have to amputate his hands and feet.

So it just sounds like he's really septic, hypopro, so he died.

Yes, also strokes happen on ECMO, right?

Anyway, he dies.

My money's only poisoned him.

He died on April 30th.

His lawyer said, Josh's passing is a loss to the aviation community and the flying public.

He possessed tremendous courage to stand up for what he felt was true and right and raised quality and safety issues.

Aviation companies should encourage and incentivize those that do raise these concerns.

Spirit came out and said, Our thoughts are with John Dean's family.

The sudden loss is stunning news here and for his loved ones.

So yeah, putting it together.

So you think maybe he was poisoned?

Yeah, I bet.

Well, was he a smoker?

Well, I need to know more about his medical history.

Yeah, I mean, literally all I'm doing is looking at a picture of this guy, where he looks like a bodybuilder and I'm making assessments about how healthy he is.

But I would still say that 45 years old, again, unless you...

I don't know.

I mean, if he smokes.

Not that it never happens.

It's not that you never get pneumonia.

But at 45, you shouldn't be.

No, and I have never had a patient with no comorbidities die of pneumonia.

Yeah.

That's why I'm like, we don't know anything about him.

If he had other medical history, probably.

But it is suspicious, isn't it?

About the time that I researched this the first time, I had also learned about the CIA's heart attack gun.

So they're talking about like during the Cold War.

This was all revealed during church committee hearings, which we've talked about with our JFK episode also.

Right.

But we know the CIA had this assassination plan, right?

That they tried to assassinate Fidel Castro.

And so they're talking about like, if they want to assassinate all these people, but like we need to find a way to do it without it looking like we're doing it.

So they actually extracted this neurotoxin from shellfish, which they could freeze and put it in a pistol, and then they would like shoot them.

This is literally like the show I'm watching with Jordan too, Prison Break.

Yeah.

They poisoned somebody and like fake his gun.

Yeah.

Well, they put something in the drink.

Oh, but like they make him look like make it made a heart attack or something like that.

So I was reading about this.

I was like, this is so crazy that they would like shoot these people with this toxin.

It would look like a heart attack.

So it's not quite the same thing.

But I'm like, also, who's to say that you could put like a bacteria?

Yeah.

I mean, I watched a whole show about someone rubbing merce all over someone and trying to kill them.

Probably like filled his house with black mold without him knowing.

So yes, the Mary Embry, who was like a secretary in the CIA, one of her jobs was to find a poison that was undetectable and like kind of help create this.

So anyway, I'm just saying they could do this.

What else could they do?

Yeah, what can't they do?

The other interesting thing was that 20 years prior to all of this, employees in the same Spirit Factory complained of mysterious ailments, including they claimed exposure to toxic.

Oh my God.

And then 20 years later, the subcontractor in the same building who's allegedly healthy suddenly dies of pneumonia.

Oh, they're all getting poisoned at work.

They're all poisoned.

But I guess my other question is, these people had both already testified.

If you were going to like take them out, wouldn't she want to do it before they testify?

Yeah.

Or they had more to say, like, were they ongoing or were they done?

Well, I don't know.

No, they were.

Well, the one guy had one more day of testimony.

The one who committed suicide.

That makes me feel like he was going to say something big.

Or were they just trying to scare off other whistleblowers?

Like, was that the making of making a scene of it?

Yeah, I don't know.

And also, I guess these were like defamation cases.

So compared to everything else that Boeing was going through, these were like pretty low stake.

Right.

Yeah, like they weren't even.

It wasn't even like the massive trial to determine if they owed, you know, like their plea deal for their safety issues or whatever.

This was just like a disgruntled employee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it seems like weird that these are the ones they would choose to take out.

Very, very interesting.

Yeah.

Now that last statement makes me feel like maybe it wasn't staged and they were just ill.

I do feel like the second guy probably had was poisoned at work by the mold.

Well, he didn't have a fungal infection, though.

He had MRSA and I don't know.

We don't have all the information here either.

He had to have MRSA somewhere else.

People get MRSA from going to dialysis, from being in the hospital, from being around people with MRSA.

You don't usually just get like a pneumonia though.

Anyway.

That's crazy.

So I don't think, did we explain what MRSA is to other people?

So we talked about the word MRSA twice in this episode.

One of them is referencing a company and one of them is referencing The bacteria.

The bacteria, yeah.

A resistant bug, a super bug, if you will.

We have our overuse of antibiotics has led to all these super bugs.

Yeah.

Anyway, kind of my thoughts, then, are it sounds like maybe we're on the same page.

You correct if I'm wrong.

Yeah.

I think, yeah, it is odd.

Yeah, but I think that these were probably just two really unfortunate deaths.

Now the other 30, we should keep track of them.

Yeah, for sure.

What's going to happen to them?

I did try to do another, because again, it's been like six, seven months.

I tried to go back and see if we've had any more deaths.

We have not had any more deaths that I could find, but that doesn't mean they're not getting covered up.

Doesn't mean they're clean.

Or they could be getting money in their pockets.

But I think the bigger conspiracy here is how Boeing has gotten away with all these safety problems for almost a decade.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

I never want to take a Boeing flight.

Well, I think I have.

You definitely have.

Yeah, and we'll take you too.

Yeah.

Well, hopefully now, I respect that this judge was like, no, we're not letting you off this easy again.

You already-

Yeah, he held them.

You already dropped the ball.

So hopefully, you know, some new safety standards.

Yeah.

And we've got a new CEO.

I don't know much about him, but-

Kelly.

Kelly.

But hopefully, Boeing gets back on track, you know?

Boeing keeps on going, you know?

So do we think Kait needs like two polls here?

Yeah, let me think.

I think she would be like, so, okay, so our poll today, let me think, so do you trust Boeing, feel they're safe and it's just coincidental?

Or do you believe that Boeing is secretive with their safety management and purposely letting things slide?

A side poll is Boeing killing whistleblowers.

Yeah, also that.

All right.

Yeah, that was all.

So you learned something today?

Yeah, don't take a Boeing plane.

Captain Fred would say, They're fine.

Boeing is fine.

I don't know.

Yeah.

But he had to think they're safe because he would fly them.

If he flew them not thinking they were safe, he would never want to fly.

He thinks a lot of these, like looking, again, he thinks a lot of this is like pilot related, but I mean, we don't, yeah, again.

We don't use autopilot 90% of the time.

He told me they do.

Yeah, so it's like take off, landing autopilot.

Yeah, I'm saying more like, well, I mean, a lot of these are on, these issues are on takeoff and landing.

Yeah, the most dangerous phase is a flight, you know.

Oh my God.

But panels flying off the side of airplanes and wheels falling on, that's not a pilot issue.

That is these Boeing employees who are jumping on, trying to make it fit, trying to make them fit and trying to cram together.

I mean, pretty much what this last guy said, this most recent whistleblower, like they're trying to cram together pieces that do not fit and make them fit.

And that is terrifying.

I don't like it at all.

I don't know.

I'm just thinking like, that's all I can think of when I see these planes, it's like putting these planes together with pieces that don't necessarily fit, but we'll just make them work, you know.

With glue.

Scotch tape.

I can't.

Oh my god.

All right.

So that's all I got.

And that's that.

Come back next week.

Again, January.

I'm just like so pumped for January because we got a lot happening.

So come back next week.

Kate's going to talk to us about Luigi.

Luigi.

Luigi.

We'll see you then.

Happy 2025, everyone.

Yeah.

Enjoy the new year.

Bye.

See you next Tuesday.

See you next Tuesday.