3SchemeQueens
Are you fascinated by conspiracy theories? Join hosts Kait, Colleen, and Megan as they discuss popular “hoaxes” and give you their comedic take on what is fact and what is fiction. If you have a sense of humor and an open mind, please tune in each week!
3SchemeQueens
The Conspiracy Theories Surrounding the Murder of JonBenet: Part II
**Discussion begins at 4:40**
The JonBenet Ramsey murder is one of the most famous and tragic unsolved child murder cases in the United States. JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty queen, was found to be missing on the morning of December 26, 1996 in what appeared to be a kidnap for ransom. Seven hours later, however, the young girl was found murdered in the basement of her 7,240 sq ft home. Here is a brief sequence of event - JonBenet was carried in from a party on Christmas night and put to bed. The following morning, her mother, Patsy, found a ransom note at the bottom of the stairs – demanding $118,000 for the safe return of JonBenet. It was signed “a foreign faction”. She noted her daughter was missing and called 911 at 5:52 AM on December 26. The ransom note was highly unusual: it was long, detailed, and written on paper from the Ramsey home. The note demanded a specific amount of money (which was nearly equivalent of John Ramsey's Christmas bonus) and instructed the parents not to contact the police. The police, as well as friends of the Ramseys, descended on the house, mucking up the crime scene. At one point, around 1PM, an detctive asks John and his friend to search the house – this being a tool to distract him and get him out of the way. The duo descended downstairs, and in a back unfinished room, John Ramsey found his daughter dead with evidence of blunt force trauma to the head and strangulation. He removed tape from her mouth and rushed her upstairs, again disturbing the crime scene. Police officers then covered the young girls body with a blanket. It took 12 hours for a coroner to arrive – their report stated that JonBenét had died from blunt force trauma to the head, with a fractured skull. She also had strangulation marks on her neck, consistent with being garrotted with a cord. The garotte was made of a paintbrush from Patsy Ramsey’s paint kit found in the same room. There was no evidence of conventional rape, but evidence of vaginal trauma, likely from the paintbrush used in the garotte. There was touch DNA belonging to an unknown male on her underwear, as well as under her nails – the DNA did not match anyone in the family or in the FBI database. Initially, the police focused on the family as potential suspects. Both Patsy and John Ramsey, as well as their 9 year old son Burke were scrutinized. While they denied involvement, suspicion grew around them due to various inconsistencies in their accounts and the peculiar nature of the crime scene. There was also speculation about an intruder, as there was evidence of open windows in the basement, which could suggest someone had entered the house, as well as 2 small marks on JonBenet consistent with a stun gun. In 1999, a grand jury had voted to indict the Ramseys, but prosecutors chose not to pursue charges due to insufficient evidence. Patsy Ramsey died in 2006 from ovarian cancer, and her death did not lead to any new breakthroughs in the case. The Ramsey family was officially exonerated in 2008 but the case remains unsolved. The investigation into her death remains open, and despite some advancements in forensic science, no one has been charged with the crime, leaving room for continued speculation and conspiracy theories.
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Oh, and also you should stop right now and send this to three family members that you're going to see and have them listen to this episode until you have something to talk about.
Much like I suggested at Thanksgiving, I think that when you're at the Christmas dinner table and people start talking about politics and uncomfortable situations, you just change the subject.
And you say, you know, there's this fun conspiracy theory podcast I've been listening to.
It's three girls having a good time.
Yeah.
And, and my gosh, their coverage of JonBenet is so good.
Fascinating.
So good.
Yeah.
They have so many good episodes.
They really bring a good spin on JonBenet.
I think so.
I think we might not, you might not have learned much in week one when we were laying the groundwork, but I think you're going to hear some new perspectives this week.
Yeah.
So is it time for our drink check?
Drink check.
This drink check, we are going to shout out to Carol, Carol from the Lake.
Thanks, Carol.
Carol is the one who introduced us to this drink, 99 proof root beer schnapps, and Colleen and I put a splash of Baileys in it, and it tastes just like a root beer floats.
Delicious.
But I will say these girls had a hard time with it because I tried to point out, it's a sipper.
To be clear, Megan gave me just the root beer liqueur and a giant ball of ice cube, which I appreciate the ice cube a lot.
Yeah, the ice cube, actually.
I love me big balls of ice.
Yeah, yeah.
He's a big ball.
He's a big ball.
He's low hanging, if you know what I mean.
It really bangs around the cup.
Yeah, almost as big as Chris Hemsworth.
Guys, have you seen that picture of Chris Hemsworth?
So anyway, these girls are obsessed now.
They think this is the greatest drink ever, but they're not drinking the authentic drink.
They're drinking beer with root beer liqueur.
Megan should have said, this drink will put a little hair on your chest.
You know what I mean?
I'm drinking the OG version, which Megan's got big dad energy right now.
Well, Carol said they used to sit around a fire and just pass the bottle around.
Wow.
So anyway, we like to sip this at the end of the night at the lake while we're watching our family movie.
That is so cute.
We'll post on the website.
I had to actually order it to ABC, which if you're not familiar with an ABC store, it's the liquor stores down here.
So anyways, that's what we're drinking, and it tastes really good.
Me and Kait just had to water it down a little bit.
It was delicious.
But I hope you all have looking forward to your Christmas times.
I hope you're listening to this on your en route drive to your Christmas celebrations.
I know I will be.
I'll be flying, and I'm going to have it docked up on my playlist, on my queue.
Perfect.
Love that.
Let's start by recapping last week.
Entering part 2.
The JonBenet Ramsey murder is one of the most famous and tragic unsolved child murder cases in the United States.
JonBenet, a six-year-old beauty queen, was found to be missing on the morning of December 26, 1996 in what appeared to be a kidnap or ransom.
Seven hours later, however, the young girl was found murdered in the basement of her 7,240-square-foot home.
Here is a brief sequence of events.
JonBenet was carried in from a party on Christmas night and put to bed.
The following morning, her mother, Patsy, found a ransom note at the bottom of the stairs, demanding $118,000 for the safe return of JonBenet.
It was signed, quote, a foreign faction.
She noted her daughter was missing and called 911 at 5:52 a.m.
on December 26.
The ransom note was highly unusual.
It was long, detailed, and written on paper from the Ramsey home.
The note demanded a specific amount of money, which was nearly equivalent to JonRamsey's Christmas bonus, and instructed the parents not to contact the police.
The police, as well as friends of the Ramseys, descended on the house, mucking up the crime scene.
At one point, around 1 p.m., a detective asked Jon and his friends to search the house, this being a tool to distract him and get him out of the way.
The duo descended into the basement, and in a back, unfinished room, Jon Ramsey found his daughter dead with evidence of blunt force trauma to the head and strangulation.
He removed tape from her mouth and rushed her upstairs, again disturbing the crime scene.
Police officers then covered the young girl's body with a blanket.
It took 12 hours for a court to arrive.
The report stated that JonBenet had died from blunt force trauma to the head with fractured skull.
She also had strangulation marks on her neck consistent with being garrotted with a cord.
The garrot was made of a paintbrush from Patsy Ramsey's paint kit found in the same room.
There was no evidence of conventional rape, but evidence of vaginal trauma likely from the paintbrush used in the garrot.
Yeah, it's awful.
There was touched DNA belonging to an unknown male on her underwear as well as under her nails.
The DNA did not match anyone in the family or in the FBI database.
Initially, the police focused on the family's potential suspects.
Both Patsy and Jon Ramsey, as well as their nine-year-old son Burke, were scrutinized.
While they denied involvement, suspicion grew around them due to various inconsistencies in their accounts and the peculiar nature of the crime scene.
There was also speculation about an intruder, as there was evidence of open windows in the basement which could suggest someone had entered the house, as well as two small marks on JonBenet consistent with a stun gun.
A 1999 grand jury had voted to indict the Ramses, but prosecution chose not to pursue charges due to insufficient evidence.
Patsy Ramsey died in 2006 from ovarian cancer, and her death did not lead to any breakthroughs in the case.
That's so sad.
The Ramsey family was officially exonerated in 2008, but the case remains unsolved.
The investigation into her death remains open, and despite some advancements and forensic science, no one has been charged with a crime, leaving room for continued speculation and conspiracy theories.
Wow.
So, we talked last week.
We are all kind of in agreement that it's probably an intruder who knew the family, right?
Somebody who scoped the house out, at least.
We all really like these, the two suspects who don't match DNA.
Gary Oliver, who had the picture of her infest up to being obsessed with her and hurting her, but DNA didn't match.
And we also liked Santa Bill, right?
Yeah, the Santa guy particularly seemed suspicious to me.
But this week, we're going to talk about some of more of the obscure conspiracy theories.
Wait a second, I have a question.
Did she go into a different dimension?
Wait a second, I have a question.
There actually might be a dimension reference.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But I will say I was texting them because I went down the rabbit hole in the conspiracy theories.
It was challenging to fact check here.
But I'm like, we're literally going to cover everything, guys.
These are all theories.
We've got 9-11, we've got Denver Airport, we've got Epstein, we've got MKUltra.
Oh, that's a throwback.
We've got...
McUltra?
Satanic Pulse.
We've got Illuminati.
Wow.
This is a lot.
Any pity references?
Wait a second.
It's Boulder, Colorado.
Do you think there's a Denver Airport?
Kait, I just said there's a Denver Airport connection.
Oh my God.
That was really funny, Jane.
The ADHDers, guys.
So let me start.
I'm going to start with...
Kait, you're going to say this is disgusting about eight times.
Okay.
I'm sorry in advance.
We're going to start with the sex ring theories.
Oh, God.
Get them out of the way.
I'm going to guess fast forward about 10 minutes if you don't want to talk about this.
I'm going to try not to get too deep and graphic.
The sex ring theories.
There's a couple of them.
So in 2000, a California woman named Nancy Krebs told police that she believed the same child's sex ring that she had been a victim of as a child was responsible for JonBenet's death.
Okay.
She reported intergenerational abuse with ongoing sexual abuse since the age of three, which included near asphyxiation and that the abuse often occurred around the holidays.
Oh, no.
The victim reports looking like JonBenet when she was a child, and she reported that her abuse was similar to the evidence on JonBenet.
Oh, no.
She said they would use asphyxiation for the purpose of stimulating a female orgasm, and that this was before the time of stun gun.
So remember, there was a theory that maybe she was stun gun.
Yes.
So she talks about, Nancy Krebs talks about that when she was a victim, they used like a cattle prod on her, and then eventually at the end, they used a stun gun once the stun gun came out.
She also talks about having hearts drawn on her hands.
Kait probably remembers, right?
JonBenet had a heart drawn on her one hand.
Yes.
She said the abuse occurred at holiday parties.
Eventually, and here's where we get to some proof proof about this allegation.
A man named Mackie Boykin was appointed as her handler.
Oh, no.
This was a neighbor that she had known her whole life, and eventually his brother married her mother.
Eww.
Boykin had been in her life ever since she can remember, but he really became a family member after his brother married her mother.
So he's like her uncle?
Stepuncle, yeah.
So his job was to train her and other little girls.
No.
And she said, trigger warning, Boykin would asphyxiate her with his hands or robe while her, quote, uncle, so other men, sexually assaulted her.
No.
She reports that her mother claimed to have suffered similar assaults growing up.
But again, it's like the diddy stuff.
She was a victim, but she never protected her kids.
She actually reported this to the police, and Boykin was subsequently charged with 64 counts of sexual assault, kidnapping, and various other related crimes.
He pled guilty to the charge.
Oh my God.
Proof proof this happened, okay?
Yes.
This actually happened.
How long do you think this guy served for these 64 charges?
Oh, not nearly long enough.
Less than a year.
Of course he did.
He serves 10 months.
When he gets out of jail, Krebs is living in another state under police protection.
He finds out where she's living because her family tells him where she is.
No, no, no, no.
So at this point, she's only 17.
He continued to abuse her for another 20 years.
And the abuse only ended in November of 1996 when Boykin died.
So Boykin died one month before JonBenet died.
Okay.
So he wasn't involved in this.
But what she's saying is that...
But everything she's told to this point is true.
We know this, right?
She was a victim.
Right.
So they think that somebody like in the ring...
Well, I'll tell you kind of how she expands it.
But I want to give you that part, because that part of the story has all been verified.
Proof, proof, it's back.
I'm sorry.
She lives near where JonBenet was?
Or she just experienced?
I'm going to...
She actually is from California.
Okay.
But I'm going to tell you how she connects this.
Okay.
So she claimed that there was a sex ring, the sex ring that she was a victim of, included JonRamsey, Fleet White.
So Fleet White was the neighbor, the best friend.
That's whose house they were at the Christmas party for on Christmas Day.
That's who was with JonRamsey when he found the body.
He's also been like another alleged suspect.
So JonRamsey, Fleet White and Fleet White's dad, who she alleges is the actual murderer.
She thinks Fleet White's dad killed JonBenet.
And that Jon filmed her being abused and profited from it.
Now, the official story is that the Ramsey and the Whites both moved to Boulder around the same time in the early 90s.
So they wouldn't have even known each other at the time that all this allegedly occurred.
So, it could be a stretch to say that JonRamsey and Fleet White were friends before all this and involved in the sex ring, okay?
Jon was in the Navy.
He did have, like before, in his younger years, Jon was in the Navy.
He did have a temporary duty station in the 60s in California, which matches up with when Nancy was at the age she claims Jon abused her.
She also alleges that JonRamsey used his company to launder money made from his pornography ring because he did have a company that was worth a billion dollars.
So, just for clarification, this is just the woman who was victimized as a child is just theorizing this.
I mean, she's claiming it's not even a theory.
She's like, the people who abused me included the Ramses.
And there's so many things on the news that match my story that I think that the murder was them.
But she's dropping what she believes are facts.
Yes.
Okay.
So the other thing is, so she also thinks that JonRamsey was using his companies to launder money made from his pornography ring because his company had made $1 billion in sale the year that JonBenet Ramsey died, which is about a fifth of what Dell made and an eighth of what Microsoft made that year.
So that's a ton of money.
And she's like, did this small company really make that much money or was it all just a front?
Oh, for the sex scandals.
Yeah, just like a money laundering, a way to launder the money that she's making by selling the child pornography.
Okay, but hold on, let me be a-
Devil's advocate.
Devil's advocate.
It was a company that was all about technology, which was like-
In the 90s.
Peak in the 90s.
Peak in the 90s, yeah.
It would make sense for them to be profitable.
Right, especially up there with those computer companies.
You know what I mean?
So I'm with you.
I don't put a lot of stake in this theory.
Also, it implicates JonRamsey and I am in a firm boat that JonRamsey has nothing to do with what's going on.
I mean, I believe in her own personal experiences, but I just don't think it connects to this story.
But also, you would think that if the police were so heavily, or the media, people were investigating the Ramses.
Do you not think that they would have looked into his company and found, well, we're gonna get more into the company.
Also, the conspiracy theorists who believe this also believe that JonRamsey had power and money.
And also, it's like Diddy.
How did Diddy get away with it for so long?
Also, it was the 90s.
But hold on, hold on.
It was also like the 90s, right?
So technology was new.
They probably didn't know how to creep through his files and get this kind of info the way we do now.
Do you know what I mean?
Also, if you're in the 90s and you're creeping through files, your files are all like paper files.
That's true, you are right.
Yeah, so it's like they can't be as secretive.
Right.
I'm sure they would have found something.
I don't think he would have been clean enough to have hid it.
Or like somebody in the company probably would have come out and been like, you know, I'm whistleblowing on.
I just don't believe this one because it's really sad.
Well, I mean, I believe Krebs and I believe that it sounds like her.
What happened to her is very similar to like what happened to JonBenet in relation to the evidence of her murder.
To quote the May 2000 press release, if we believe the police, the Boulder Police spent 11 weeks investigating the allegations which included conducting 22 interviews reviewing medical and psychological records, reviewing photographs and recordings, consulting with a forensic psychiatrist and comparing the allegation against physical evidence and current knowledge of the case.
As a result, Boulder Police and prosecutors working on the case have concluded that other than the woman's statements, there is no evidence to support this theory of JonBenet's murder.
Police discovered that Krebs was subject of a missing person report from California and had claimed to be a witness to at least two other homicide investigations.
They were able to associate it with Fleet Senior.
I think that Fleet Senior was like her mom's godfather or something.
But Fleet Senior is who she thinks killed.
Actually killed, yeah.
But there's no evidence that she ever met Fleet Junior or Ramsey.
She claimed her mom and niece were at the Christmas party at the Fleets, but that was debunked because we know who was at the Christmas party and they weren't there.
So I think this lady was truly abused.
She was truly a victim.
I think she has some psychiatric disorder related to that.
I believe she probably really believes all of this.
I also saw reports she has like dissociative issues and multiple personality disorder.
And anyway, I think it's a jump.
I'm not buying into that.
But if not this sex ring, perhaps a different one.
Yeah.
Boulder was apparently a hotbed of sex crime at the time.
There are a ton of cases, but this episode is already impossible to condense.
So just know that there is proof, proof that there are a lot, there were a lot of cases at this time in Boulder dealing with sex abuse and child abuse.
Okay.
Another interesting viral photo that has been circulating has people connecting Epstein.
So do you have my photo up over there?
Ghislaine Maxwell.
Now remember, she was the person who used, she's in jail now, she used to get the people for Epstein.
She's behind her.
Oh my god.
That's the theory.
So there's this photo of her and there's a profile of a lady in the background.
Kait, you'll have to post this for everybody.
Oh my gosh.
And people are theorizing, well, that's the theory.
We have no proof proof.
It looks just like her.
I don't know.
I mean, it's someone with short brunette hair and like a pointed nose.
The nose matches up pretty well.
And the high cheekbones.
No, that's great.
That is so creepy.
Other think that she like got JonBenet.
Yeah, but the difference is that JonBenet died.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, that's what I'm confused about.
How did she die?
Like if there was a sex ring happening and she was being like trafficked for Epstein or whatever, there was also she died like vaginal trauma.
Yeah, but cute.
But the chronic vaginal trauma was very vague.
It was very exterior.
So some people theorize that it could be trauma that you would get just from chafing, like just from costumes and sequins and tights.
So it's very, it could not, the trauma could not roll in or roll out.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
But another interesting connection with Maxwell, the Ramses had the same lawyer as Maxwell.
So loose evidence of an Epstein-JonBenet connection.
Yeah.
Just a little connection there.
With everything that goes on with Epstein, like I wouldn't be surprised if it was connected.
Okay, guys.
Speaking of Epstein.
Okay.
Okay.
Did you know that there was a proof proof here?
Oh, God.
Many Epstein Island situation right here in the United States in the 70s.
Wait a second.
Where?
North Fox Island.
So North Fox Island was a remote island located in Lake Michigan, near the state of Michigan.
It became notorious in the 1970s and 80s due to its use as a location for the abuse of children.
Disgusting.
As part of a larger child exploitation network that came to be known as the North Fox Island Pedophile Ring.
No, that is so gross.
Francis Sheldon, a wealthy businessman and philanthropist, along with several other individuals is believed to have been involved in the operation of a camp on North Fox Island where children, often from troubled backgrounds or from foster care systems were taken.
Oh my gosh.
The children were sexually exploited, filmed and trafficked as part of a larger web of acts.
And this is true?
Proof proof.
Oh my God.
The operation was linked to prominent figures and there were reports that the children were flown to the island from various locations including Michigan and beyond to be abused.
Oh my God.
The activities were part of a network of child exploitation that also had connections to other places in the United States.
The abuses were discovered in the late 1970s leading to investigations, arrests and convictions, but a lot of the alleged perpetrators avoided significant punishment because of the high-profile nature of those involved and the rings operations were made obscured by the incomplete investigations and the protection of high-profile figures.
So how does this relate to the Ramsey?
Right.
John Ramsey was raised in Michigan where his father, James Dudley Ramsey, also known as J.
Ramsey, headed the Nebraska Aeronautics Commission from 1947 to 1956, and then led the Michigan Aeronautics Commission from 1957 to 1979.
So he was involved in the approval of an airstrip construction on the island, and this was a critical part of the operations that allowed for the transportation of children to the island.
Oh my god.
And that the island again is where the abuse took place.
The airstrip was constructed to facilitate the movement of children to and from the island, often via private planes.
The abuse on North Fox Island was part of a broader child exploitation network, and the airstrip made it easier for perpetrators to fly children in and out without detection.
Now, did he know that he was helping pedophiles?
Was he involved?
That is unclear.
Also, the Ramseys, meaning Jon and his dad, they used to vacation with Francis Sheldon at a summer home.
Francis Sheldon is the head guy responsible for this whole ring.
No, this is North Fox Island ring.
There was also a series of child abductions and murders that occurred in Oakland County, Michigan between 1976 and 1977.
This is the killer known as the Oakland County child killer is believed to have targeted children aged 10 to 12 and may have had ties to someone familiar with the victims.
Despite extensive investigations, the identity of the Oakland County child killer has never been conclusively determined, but many have circumstantially connected the ring and the Oakland County child killer due to the victims and the motive, as well as the geographic location.
Sounds like they were being taken to that island.
Yeah.
One of the prime suspects, Stephen Stanislaw, he was one of the pilots who allegedly ran children for the North Fox Island Ring, and he knew the Ramses.
Was Jay Ramsey, John Ramsey's dad involved, or was he just a government employee who's like a paper pusher and has no idea about any of this?
I don't know.
Well, I don't know, but those are the facts, guys.
He's really oddly connected.
And then Stephen Singular, he was the author of Presumed Guilty.
So he wrote this book.
He spoke with cybercrime specialists and believed that her affiliation with the pageant world attracted child pornographers and pedophiles.
He speculated that JonBenet was part of a child pornography ring that thrives in Boulder and that she was killed by one of its members.
The police were so focused on the parents, they weren't interested in looking into known pedophiles and has evidence of multiple cases in which evidence went missing or wasn't collected and charges were dropped.
Wait, I have a question.
Wouldn't there be more vaginal trauma if she was actually part of a sex ring?
Wouldn't there be more evidence on her body?
Yeah.
I mean, the trauma is very-
I would assume there'd be multiple DNA.
Well, I guess it depends on when the last assault was.
The history of sex abuse again, very vague, like the very conflicting reports.
So this author, Singular, he cited all these different cases in which people's hard drives weren't looked at and like that kind of thing just going missing.
And so he's like, you know, is law enforcement involved?
Is that why there's been such this push to like blame it on the parents?
In April 1987, Ramsey's lawyers said, The leadership of Boulder Police Department lacks the objectivity and judgment to find the killer of JonBenet Ramsey.
Hmm, what does that mean?
So Randy Simmons, he was a photographer.
He took photos of JonBenet a few months before her death.
And afterwards, he actually sold them for $7,500.
And he was like, this will end my career.
And I'm like, to end your career over $7,500, that's not going to keep you fed for very long, you know?
Not in this economy.
No.
So some pageant moms claimed that he had asked if he could photograph their girls nude or semi nude.
According to their mothers.
That's absolutely disgusting.
Afterwards, he acted very strangely.
Apparently, he was only interviewed one time after these allegations.
This is like someone I would probably look at.
He's like within the circle.
And there's these allegations from other moms.
And apparently, the one time the detective spoke to him, he said, I know more, but I'm not going to talk about it.
What?
What does that mean?
Why wasn't he investigated further?
In October of 1998, he was arrested on charge of indecent exposure for walking nude down a residential street.
And when the police arrested him, he reportedly told them, I didn't kill JonBenet.
Like they didn't ask about JonBenet.
He just like offered this up.
You know, that's suspicious.
That is so suspicious.
But also, you know what?
I have a lot of questions about the Boulder community at this point.
They're like, oh, it's so safe.
It sounds like there's a lot of mental illness.
You know, mm hmm.
Then in 2019, he was arrested and charged on 15 counts of child sex abuse.
He got busted because a restaurant noted that someone had been using their Wi-Fi to download child pornography images.
Oh my God.
The police were able to track it to his computer and he was found guilty on all charges sentenced to 10 years.
Oh my God.
He lives alone, so he had no alibi for the time of the murder, but his DNA and handwriting did not match.
A 1997 article in the Star Tabloid claimed that child pornography had been found on Access Graphics computers.
Access Graphics was Jon's company.
This is a tabloid, weak evidence, right?
They write ridiculous stuff.
But let's note that the Ramses have sued Star in the past over other allegations.
So interesting that there's no response from Lockheed Martin or the Ramses on this.
Maybe they just didn't want to draw more attention to it, or maybe there was truth.
I mean, if they commented on every single little thing, that would look more suspicious to me.
I know, especially with us, right?
We're like, if there was a rebuttal, or if there was a statement released, we would be like, they definitely did it.
Right, exactly.
What is it like, fly on honey?
You can't win with us.
Okay, those are the big ones.
And then let me talk about Project Monarch.
So Project Monarch was allegedly a part of MKUltra.
We know that MKUltra was real, right?
Yes.
We don't know that Project Monarch was real.
We have no proof proof of this.
But there is this lady, Kathy O'Brien.
She claims, so she's been around for like, since before JonBenet with these reports, right?
That she claims that under hypnosis, she recovered memories of participating in Project Monarch.
She claims it involved manipulating individuals, particularly children, into becoming programmed mind slaves for various purposes, including espionage or covert operations.
But this lady-
What?
Yeah, this lady though, she alleges that she and her daughter were part of this program.
They were sexual slaves.
Okay, but people who kind of believe all this, go back to Patsy Ramsey, who, Kait, you mentioned last week, she was a beauty queen herself, right?
She had a military father who said, Oh my God, it was crazy.
She could just like sit still for hours.
What kid can do that?
So people are like, yeah, what kid can do that?
Was she drugged?
You know, she won Miss West Virginia and went on to compete in Miss America.
And a Miss America judge commented that she, quote, was a little automaton on automatic pilot.
So O'Brien claims that there was a video confiscated by law enforcement from the Ramsey home entitled How to Create a Mind Control Slave Using a Stun Gun.
Whoa.
O'Brien, who reportedly has over a thousand stun gun burns on her body, said she is the female used in the instructional video, but the video was seized for national security.
So was JonBenet part of Project Monarch?
Did Project Monarch even exist?
I don't know.
What do you guys think?
I don't think so.
Yeah, I'm skeptical.
Yeah.
And I think the fact that she regained all this knowledge under hypnosis makes me even more skeptical.
I feel like we've had a couple of incidents of people just being like, and I had a dream, and that dream told me that I was a part of this, and this person was, too.
It feels like that.
Also, if you watch interviews of Patsy Ramsey, she does appear, but I think that's just her cadence.
She doesn't have a lot of expression.
Well, again, we think that she's also taken a lot of benzos.
Yeah.
But it could be, again, that that's just part of her personality.
She's not very expressive.
Yeah.
And if her son, as we're thinking, might be on the spectrum, it might make sense.
She could be good at masking things.
Kind of the end of the sex related conspiracy theories.
You know, did pageants just expose her to somebody like nefarious?
So in September of 97, a 12 year old girl who went to the same dance studio and lived down the street was raped by a masked intruder.
Oh my gosh, who got away after her mom heard a noise coming from the bedroom.
Oh my gosh.
Sounds familiar.
Both the Ramses and the neighbor found camel blue cigarette butts outside the scene.
In general.
Yeah, but like this wasn't investigated.
I think Jon Ramsey really pushed the police to like there could be a connection.
Like there's no connection.
Oh my gosh, that is very connected.
The police department really screwed up.
These are all things that would be clearly needing to be investigated to rule out.
To be honest, I feel like protocol should be, if any clue comes up, you look into it.
Why write it off without looking into it?
Exactly.
We're like almost 30 years into this.
That's crazy.
Yeah, you should be looking into everything that pops up.
I think that the deal with, I would have also said, again, we've talked about this, if you told me the Diddy story 10 years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.
It's just so out there.
But I think that people come up with these conspiracy theories, these sex ring theories, because it's less scary for them to think there's a whole ring out there, than like there was just, it could happen to anyone.
It could just be like a bad guy, right?
Like there could just be a predator in the neighborhood attacking them, or their families, or it could be, anyway.
We have gotten through two theories.
No, well, it's like four.
We've gotten through all the sex stuff.
My big skepticism, I guess, is the word for the sex things, is that she doesn't have any real trauma that says that she's been sexually abused.
History of trauma, too.
Right.
There wasn't like...
Well, yeah.
I mean, her...
Except for, again, this goes back to the media, and they're like, she's highly sexualized in these pageants, which...
Yeah.
Her primary care has been very vocal about the fact that there was never any evidence.
She didn't exhibit any of the normal symptoms that you would see with someone who was traumatized from sexual abuse.
Sexual abuse or physical abuse or emotional abuse.
She's come out and said, no, she was a healthy six-year-old.
Yeah.
Okay.
Moving on from the sex-related conspiracy theories, let's talk about the satanic cult theory.
Oh, God.
So some people think that Patsy Ramsey thought her daughter was out of control and possessed.
Others claim that the Ramsey's had sold their soul to become rich.
I think this is just all rich people.
Yeah.
Right.
I was just going to say.
So August 1st is a Wiccan holiday.
And we did talk about how, just to be clear, Satanism, paganism, Wiccans, not the same thing.
No.
Right.
But I guess August is very occult.
It's a Wiccan holiday.
Marx has started the harvest season and is therefore considered very occult.
Right.
She was born August 6th.
She died at the age of six in 1996.
We have a lot of sixes here.
Wait a second.
I have a question.
She was born August 6th?
Yeah.
She was born August 6th.
What is she?
She's a Leo.
Okay.
Major Leo energy in those, you know, pageantry videos.
So you're saying it all checks out.
And how about the bickering with your mom about what you're going to wear?
Oh, my God.
Yeah, it's all sounds about right.
It sounds exactly right for a Leo.
Okay.
So almost two years prior to JonBenet's death.
Now, Kait also kind of hinted about how JonRamsey, this was his second marriage, right?
He had some older children.
So two years prior to JonBenet's death, her older half sister had tragically died in a car accident.
And there are reports online that Beth, the sister had uncovered repressed memories of ritualistic sexual abuse that involved multiple people, including her dad, that she started talking to friends and family about it.
And then mysteriously died.
I couldn't find any proof proof of this.
It just sounds like a very tragic story.
Her death was thoroughly investigated.
None of this came up.
So where did this come from?
Also people theorize that the $118,000, that number, maybe it had nothing to do with his bonus.
Maybe it was just symbolic related to numerology or occult symbolism.
What the message is, no one knows.
But they're like, maybe there was a hidden message here.
This also occurred during the 90s when Satanic Panic was still dying down.
Two weeks before her death, she was allegedly talking about quote, scary people in long black robes.
Whoa.
Redditors talk about people in black hoods dancing around her in a circle.
But if you look at where she was found, like she was found in this very small room.
There is no room in that room for a circle of people and they certainly couldn't make a big circle.
It looks like how big your like water heater room is.
Yeah.
Like it's not big.
No.
And I'm sure, you know, because Kait, you watched documentaries that house was a mess.
Yeah.
Yes.
I was actually kind of surprised.
I was like, whoa.
I mean, it was Christmas.
It was kids, but that house was a mess.
And so anyway, the walls were really choppy.
There was there was stuff all over the place.
It was a small room.
I just can't picture like this, you know, circle of people.
There were also rumors of an animal sacrifice because there were animal hairs found on JonBenet.
Did they have a dog?
Yes.
Which goes back to also the dog didn't alert anyone.
So was there someone the dog knew who did this?
It's a huge house.
We already talked about that.
The fur does not match the dog.
You know what the fur does not match?
No, you know where the fur is?
The fur is beaver hair.
What?
Exactly.
Did Mrs.
Benet have a beaver jacket?
I'm so happy you asked.
Yeah.
That is one of the theories.
This lady had a lot of like mink and fur and like was was as a fur jacket.
She did have some boots that had some beaver fur.
Also, the brush, the paint brushes made with beaver hair.
So is that where this came from?
Also, this girl had been at a party with probably other people who were out of their animals like.
And like rich people wear fur.
Yeah, especially in the 90s.
Well, yeah, but beaver, maybe a scarf.
Here's what I'm thinking.
I just never think beaver hair is like a fur that you want to wear.
Well, they said like fur boots could be beaver hair.
So I think I feel like it could be like this.
Okay.
You know what else?
I can't fact check this, but here's what I'm thinking.
What?
Maybe a Santa costume.
Oh, I mean, I just associate Santa with white fur.
Yeah, but like maybe it is white.
Maybe it's dyed.
Okay, fast forward to 2020.
Okay.
Oh, gosh.
Her grave was desecrated in what was thought by many to be satanic.
Desecrated?
Yes.
What does that mean?
Like dug up?
No.
Well, I'll tell you what it means.
Okay.
Dry leaves and pine needles were used to build a fire on top of the marble slab covering JonBenet's grave, which is located behind her mother, Patsy's final resting place.
The people who own the cemetery were like, this is unusual because people do come and they do leave things at her grave a lot, but it's usually like trinkets, toys, whatever.
But this was weird and it felt very occultish.
Who would put a fire on someone's grave?
It was just strange.
But other satanic experts are like, usually satanic rituals involve small animals, not just random greenery.
This was probably a bunch of kids messing around, probably not actually a satanic ritual.
So she was buried in Marietta.
Yep.
Yeah.
Are you guys buying satanic coal?
No.
Okay.
This all just seems really far-fetched to me.
Okay.
Here's a little weird.
So there's Illuminati theories and here's a little, this is a weird story.
Okay.
So on December 23rd, there was the Ramsey's had that party with Santa.
Okay.
Yes.
We talked about that.
Santa, Santa Bill.
Santa Bill.
On the 23rd, during this party, there was a 911 call from the Ramsey House, but it was a hangup.
So a police officer actually came and investigated.
Wait a second.
At what time?
During the party on December 23rd.
Oh, okay.
Two days prior.
So not the 25th.
Correct.
Two days prior.
So there's different theories about this call.
Some people are like, oh, it was just a drunk party guest.
Some people are like, I think that someone was on to JonBenet getting abused and they were trying to report it, but they were hushed.
There's like all these crazy theories about that.
So was it a bunch of kids playing around and like someone called 911?
True or dare?
Yeah.
One of the stories that I found is one of the stories I found is that I mean, I remember being at a party at my friend's house and her little sister actually called 911 and like the police showed up and her mom was like reaming at her little girl and her kids because I never didn't know well.
I know any better.
I didn't either.
But like I can see how a kid we were talking about that at work the other day.
And like a couple of people, they were like, oh yeah, I called 911.
I called 911.
I was just thinking, I was so afraid.
They just have an urge of doing something you're not supposed to do.
Yeah.
I think my mom just never talked about it.
So we never did you know you're supposed to call 911 in an emergency?
I think at school we talked about it, but I don't remember ever having a conversation at home about don't do that.
If unless or whatever.
Okay.
Now here is one of the stories that came out.
Okay.
About this 911 call.
Okay.
So let's take this back to Fleet, Fleet Jr.
Yes.
Fleet was the friend whose party they were at on Christmas Day.
Okay.
Fleet Jr.
Fleet Jr.
They were best friends in Boulder for like two years.
Okay.
Fleet Jr.
was with Jon when he found the body.
Yes.
Okay.
So, oh my gosh, wait a second.
Did he kill her and then bring her back?
Whoa.
Well, that there are some theories that like he had been down in the basement earlier and hadn't found her.
And was that because he knew she was there and he just didn't want her found?
Fleet Jr.
Fleet White claims that his mom in Aspen had a medical emergency and he was trying to coordinate long distance for her and that it was a misstyle.
And then when 9-1 called back, it went to voicemail.
So an officer went out to inspect and the party was happening and it was noted to be a misstyle.
Now, the Aspen area code is 9-7-0, so how did he get 9-1-1 from 9-7-0?
But maybe he was calling 4-1-1.
Okay, that's an easier mistake to make.
So he says that he was at this party and other witnesses, he was in the phone in the office the whole time because he was trying to coordinate his mom's health care.
And then apparently he and a family member drove out to the Denver Airport.
Oh my god.
Suspicious.
Under the pretense of picking up medical supplies to be flown to his parents in Aspen.
So we know there's some Illuminati associations with the Denver Airport, right?
Yes.
Go back and listen to Colleen's episode.
It was a good one.
Also, there's theories that JonBet, J-O-N-B-E-T means devil in Illuminati.
Oh my god.
I couldn't fact check.
I mean, I guess I can't fact check any of that because it's the Illuminati, but that's written in a lot of places online where people got that.
Yeah, where's that coming from?
I don't know.
There's got to be a source.
So honestly, that's a pretty stupid story, but I just liked that we could also link this to the Denver report.
Yeah, previous episode.
And then let's get political because Kait, you talked about this.
You thought it could have been related to Jon's business dealings, am I right?
Oh, yeah.
So in 1981, Jon Ramsey sold his company to Lockheed, which then merged with Martin Marietta to become Lockheed Martin.
And this is one of the nation's largest defense contractors.
Yep.
They kept him on as president and CEO.
And that is why the family relocated to Boulder.
Also, the ransom note, which we didn't dig too deep into yet, it claimed to be a small foreign faction who does not respect the country Jon represents.
Right.
And so I guess this led to political conspiracies.
Yeah.
Right.
Could it be a disgruntled former employee?
After all, the note was addressed to Mr.
Ramsey, then called him Jon throughout the note and had knowledge of his background.
I was going to say the first letter, remember that first draft was found on her legal pad.
Yeah.
And it was titled Mr.
and Mrs.
And then the final just said Mr.
Ramsey.
Yeah.
Well, I will say that people point to the legal pad also, but I think if you're thinking about not wanting to bring in things from outside that could be traced back.
Oh, yeah.
Maybe that's why.
I don't know.
Also, they never found the duct tape, the rope.
Like whoever did this could bring things in.
I can't believe Jon Ramsey pulled off the duct tape.
There's so many things.
Oh, and then it's really sad to see that apparently when he picked her up, like rigor mortis had set in and she was stiff and he just carried up like a stiff board.
It's like so sad.
Some of the former employees were looked into.
Could there have been a larger political conspiracy?
There were theories that people were noting that Jon Ramsey's phone records were never released and they were like, why is that?
That's good evidence to have.
Maybe it's a cover up to conceal that he was communicating with Lockheed Martin after the fact.
OK, like maybe they were all involved and it was all a big cover up.
Jon Ramsey was former military.
Oh, OK, there's this whole government.
There's a whole 9-11 theory that's floating around that I think is also pretty out there.
Last podcast on the left referenced during 9-11, George Bush is like rush to seclusion.
Yes, because they were worried about him.
And then it's there's a whole plan like if something happens the president, what is like the sequence of events?
Yeah, the vice president and apparently he had a secretary of state.
Yeah, apparently he had access to the whole communication system.
I don't I can't fact check this.
This is all just coming from last podcast on the left.
Anyway, either way, he had he may or may not have access to like government information.
He did work for Lockheed Martin.
He was a former military.
So some people are like, did he know about 9-Eleven and he didn't participate?
And that's what this was.
I don't know that 9-Eleven was really being planned in 1996, five years prior.
But there is like a whole crazy 9-Eleven.
And that's why she was targeted by the foreign faction.
But this like reminds me of like, if you look into one conspiracy, then the other then there's like it can be all another conspiracy, which connects to another conspiracy.
It's like you have to believe one in order to believe all of them.
Yeah.
And yeah, I'm not into that one.
Apparently, the FBI showed up and all they did was tap Jon Ramsey's phone and left.
So they didn't do any kind of further investigation.
The VP of Security at Lockheed Martin said this, You know, I had a six-year-old son and we have a security protocol and the letter threatened other executives.
Where was the security?
Where were the bodyguards?
Where was the protocol?
Where was the alert, the drill, the routine, the regimen that we so carefully shared and worked on at Lockheed Martin?
Not a word, not a sound, not a telephone call.
So he starts calling executives and lawyers and others and they were like, he's like, why wasn't my family alerted?
What happened?
They said, well, there was really no threat.
He's like, well, how do you know?
Well, I don't know.
We just knew.
So anyway, there's this whole thing about like, there had been, I think, other previously like a large company had had like a kidnapping situation and they were treated very differently.
They were like locked down and protected the rest of the employees.
But they're like, did Lockheed Martin know something?
And that's why they weren't concerned that like, you know, there could be other victims.
Yeah, I think that, I don't know.
I think that the police from the beginning just did not.
Nothing was treated professionally.
Yeah, but I think so.
He was talking to Lockheed Martin, right?
So like, if Lockheed Martin knew something is, I think the argument this guy's making, take the take the police out of it.
But how would they know about it if the police hadn't?
No, JonRamsey called Lockheed Martin, right?
And he's like, here's what happened.
They saw the ransom note, the ransom note, which says, we are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction, we do respect your business, but not the country that it serves.
So it's referencing his company.
Oh.
And he called them, they're the ones who said, don't talk to the police, get a lawyer, right?
So I guess this, the VP of Securities argument is like, well, based on just that information, other companies have had a history of like, protecting everyone to be like, we don't know what's happening.
So like, we're going to get some extra security and like, everyone watch your kids.
But like, they didn't alert anybody else in the company.
So he's arguing like, did they know something?
Like, did they know more than we did?
Like, they know you're not a threat.
You're not at risk because we know more.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
The Asia Pacific American Coalition was an active liberal political group operating out of Colorado University.
So believers of the theory that they were involved believe that the $118,000 had nothing to do with Jon Ramsey's bonus, but rather it was code for her time of death, which would have been 0118 AM, which falls in the time of the death window.
Whoa.
They point to the ransom note and its reference to the small foreign faction.
This faction was alleged to have connections to the Asia Pacific region, which some theorists speculated could involve Chinese or Japanese criminal groups.
JonBenet's death might have been the result of a botched kidnapping involving foreign nationals, possibly with ties to Asian organized crime or trafficking rings.
These groups, according to the theory, could have been targeting the wealthy Ramsey family for ransom.
So was the APAC involved?
Or were they covering it up to protect the perpetrators?
What kind of gave this theory legs is that the APAC disbanded within weeks after this murder.
Oh, wow.
But people who don't, I mean, I think, again, another weak theory.
I don't see a lot of proof, proof, no evidence.
And a lot of people think this is kind of like a xenophobic, you know, racially motivated theory.
It's a little odd.
So another theory is that JonBenet's death is linked to some kind of organized crime activity.
I think this stems from the fact that there was a request for ransom money.
And some theories link the case idea that the family's wealth or prominence might have led them to become targets of a larger criminal enterprise.
But again, I'm sorry, $118,000 feels not worth it specific and not worth it.
I mean, I think this is like when the ransom movie came out.
I feel like I'd be like asking for a million.
Yeah.
And that's what all the experts are saying.
Like $118,000.
That's like such a random note.
You're like taking the dough.
No, but to be like a hint to be like, yeah, we did it.
You know what I mean?
Like you think it was a secret code?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I understand that.
Yeah.
What you're saying here.
Like they did such an odd number to be like, you mess with us.
We're going to kill your daughter.
And we know we know we have Intel on you.
Yeah.
We have access to your bank accounts.
Yeah.
That's what I could.
That's why where I'm interpreting the odd number.
Well, the handwriting, they went.
Everybody went through like a handwriting analysis and none of no one's.
Well, they allegedly claimed the Patsy's match, but then other experts went back and said it didn't.
They said they could not rule out.
Yeah, it was a very vague.
She was the only one they couldn't rule out.
Right.
Right.
Right.
But it was like not she wasn't a match.
So back.
Let's briefly.
We're just going to comment on a couple of the like like these haven't all been out there.
We got a couple more that are really out there.
Right.
OK, one of them is that the aliens did it and they are the foreign faction.
Yes.
The footprints that they immediately.
Yes.
I told you they were footprints defined by her body.
They didn't match any of the Ramses.
But Bigfoot.
Well, they were actually very small, childlike, more female like or alien like.
Oh, are we sure it wasn't her own footprints?
They said that they ruled them out as being a match.
And I think there was like a like a like a shoe print like that was they were never able to find a matching shoe for.
Was it a wolf or a dog?
We kind of talked about that.
I think that really.
I think it really comes from the owl theory in the staircase.
I think that's that's a leap.
Okay.
Really?
What I wanted to talk about, but there is only about a sentence of content on this, is the theory that JonBenet is really Katy Perry.
So, in 2014, there was this video.
Dave Johnson made these allegations.
Basically, the root of this is that they look the same.
He claims that if you look at the pictures, too, of them with their parents, their parents kind of look similar.
Oh, that's weird.
Also, Katy Perry's parents are pretty well known.
They were ministers.
Obviously, not the same people.
Katy Perry does a lot of rebirth messages in her music videos.
Katy is six years older than JonBenet, and we have childhood photos of her when she was five, four, and they don't, they're not, it's not JonBenet.
So they found JonBenet's body.
So JonBenet is dead.
She's not missing.
True.
Oh, I could see it a little bit, but not a lot.
Yeah, so if you believe these theories also that, like, this was all a fake death in order to get her out of the pageant scene.
They also both sang Christian songs.
Anyway, don't believe it, but there's a crazy theory out there that Katy Perry and JonBenet are the same person.
I mean, I don't think they are, but it does, it is kind of creepy how, like, similar they look.
It goes back to all these people we've talked about now who look like other people.
Yeah.
We all have doppelgangers.
There's also a theory floating that she actually never existed.
JonBenet never existed.
No, I hate this.
But you know her body, and we have so many pictures.
Well, this stems from the fact that there is no record of JonBenet's body ever being received by the Boulder County Coroner's Office, and the pages that recorded her being received by the morgue went missing.
More likely, this indicates a suspicious cover-up.
Yeah.
These believers allege that all those photos you've been seeing, they're AI generated.
In the 90s?
Yeah, maybe.
Someone had the technology then, even if we didn't.
No way.
But I feel like I've been seeing the same picture since, like...
No way...
.
for a really long time.
So Burke just didn't, just like, is mentally ill and never knew his sister.
Maybe he's part of the cover-up.
I don't know.
Like, what is the gain?
That they just, like, spin this conspiracy, and a little girl was murdered?
Listen, no one believes this.
It's been dis-true.
This is just something that someone floated out there, okay?
In 2000, Jon and Patsy were on Larry King Live, and they claimed they had never received or even seen a death certificate.
But how could they have buried her without a death certificate, let alone transported her body from Colorado?
You don't get it right away.
You can bury them without it.
Well, how could you transport the body from Colorado to Georgia without a death certificate?
Well, he had a lot of money, so didn't he have a private plane?
He did.
He was like a pilot.
I think a private pilot.
No, he didn't actually pilot.
Well, I think he was a pilot, but I thought he did not fly the plane to when they left.
That was a lot of scrutiny against that because they were like, how did this man just lose his six-year-old daughter and then was able to have the mental capacity to fly a plane?
It's like he wasn't flying.
I know.
Then people were like, why was he booking travel so close to the death?
But he's like, they told us to get out of our house, and we were trying to get back to Atlanta to bury our daughter.
They had all their extended family there, so that's where all their support is.
Yeah, so those are kind of my crazy conspiracies.
The very last thing I wanted to talk about is the final mystery, the ransom note.
It was signed SBTC Victory.
Yeah, and to this day, what does that mean?
Right.
They haven't been able to really figure out what that means.
So here are the theories that are out there.
I already touched on the Santa theory.
If you believe Santa Bill did it, I believe Santa Bill did it.
South on Broadway toward Cashman, those are the directions to get from Santa Bill's home to the Ramsey home.
I don't know why that would be what he would think as he-
Or Santa Bill SBTC.
Santa Bill something something.
Okay.
We need your religious background on this one.
Apparently, Patsy's sister Pam was quoted talking about JonBenet's death saying she got her victory at 3 o'clock in the morning on Saturday.
So, Kait, have you ever used the term victory when discussing death?
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Well, when Jesus dies, it's like he has victory over the devil.
Because people were like, oh, that's really weird terminology.
And she put-
like this is the only person who's ever used that term.
And it's signed in the ransom note.
So maybe it's one in the same and it was the Ramsey's.
Well, that's the only way I've heard, to be clear.
The only way I've heard somebody talking about death and victory is that, like, Jesus having died and that-
and he's victorious over Satan.
That's the only time I've heard that.
So a lot of people also interpret this as, like, them just going down, like, the Ramsey's were involved in a cult and this takes them down that whole rabbit hole.
Other theories also religious because they were a very religious family.
Yeah.
Could it mean saved by the cross?
Maybe save be the child or so bless this child?
Okay.
Yeah.
Subic Bay Training Center, SBTC.
This is a base in the Philippines where Jon Ramsey once served.
So some people think that again, this could be a sign that whoever wrote the ransom note knew about-
And then was Jon Ramsey's background.
Yeah.
Like a foreign enemy.
Southwestern Bell Telephone Company.
The theory here is that they were writing the note and there was a phone book nearby and they just read off the phone book and signed it SBTC.
Oh, so scary.
Those who believe that Patsy wrote the letter think she was inspired by the movie Ransom.
Now, Patty Hearst was kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army, which they called themselves the SLA.
Some people who have seen Ransom the movie or have read about Patty Hearst and are now trying to stage a kidnapping might be like, oh, the SLA will let me think about an acronym that's reminiscent of that.
And they just randomly made up this acronym.
The Victory could have been a reference to Jon's sailboat races.
He had won a bunch of regattas.
JonBenet also had 24 pageant wins.
Was it a reference to that?
I kind of like this one.
SBTC, Stand By to Communicate.
Oh, I like that one too.
That makes sense to me, right?
Because they are like, you'll hear from us again.
It feels very military, you know?
Or could it be, she's behind the cellar?
Could it be a clue to where to find the body?
So, that's it.
That's a deep dive into the crazy conspiracies.
So, where are we at now?
We still think Santa Bill?
Well, yeah, I think Santa Bill is somebody, again...
An intruder who knew the family.
An intruder who knew the family, exactly.
Definitely an intruder.
So, Kait, you're going to post a poll?
Is it a conspiracy?
Yeah, there's too many, like, conspiracy theories.
Maybe you just went through for it to be a conspiracy.
The family, an intruder, or, like, a conspiracy?
Yeah, family.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I'm an intruder.
We didn't even talk about Burke, really, but I just think Burke is...
I kind of touched up with the family, but, again, the only story with the Burke is, like, the pineapple.
Was he mad or jealous?
Had he gotten up to play when he claimed he was asleep all night, but then at one point he said he got up and played.
So the theory is, like, did he get up and have a fight with her and hit her over the head, and they covered it up, I think.
Right?
That's kind of the whole Burke theory.
Right.
Or maybe, maybe, like, they didn't come and get her from the bed.
If there was, like, pineapple in the kitchen, maybe she went, woke up and, like, went downstairs to get a snack, and it was right there, and the intruder was there.
Yeah.
Or maybe that, well, there's something about, like, the way her, it literally, they say, like, the way her bed was found was just, like, the covers were pulled back.
Like, she was gently.
Well, they also say that when the, because again, the theory is that she was stunned in a stun gun in a submission.
Right.
And when the the the ransom that was found on the bottom of a stairwell, which is like not the main stairwell, it's like it's under in her bed back stairwell.
Yeah.
And there was maybe they stunder in her sleep.
Well, like, that's kind of the theory, but that she her tinsel from the are from the rail was found in her hair.
And so people think she like they like propped her up while they put the ransom note in place.
Oh, my gosh.
So I guess in that theory, she's like unconscious until she gets down the stairs to the cellar.
But like you're saying, yeah, if it was someone she knew, like not even Santa Bill, but maybe a Santa or someone else she knew, then maybe she's just walking downstairs and the pineapple sitting there and she grabs one and takes a bite.
Right.
But things are not going.
Yeah.
The danger and things are about to get ugly.
Yeah.
Or like maybe he woke her up and was like come on downstairs.
Oh my gosh.
This is all just like gives me the absolute creeps.
It is sad because I'm with you.
I mean, I hope it gets solved, but I do feel like unless somebody admits to it and has their DNA matches, which again, I'm not even sure I believe that we're going to ever get a DNA match in this case.
I just don't know that it's going to be solved because the police made such a mess of it all.
That's the poor little girl.
Her poor family.
Burke, JonRamsey, Patsy Ramsey died.
I think it's actually kind of crazy that she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer two years before.
She was in remission at the time, and then it occurred after the death.
Then everyone was saying, how could you put her through these pageants?
She was like, well, I was a pageant girl, and who knows how long I had with her?
So they were trying to create these memories, too, because she was very realistic about, yeah, I'm in remission now, but she died 10 years after.
So sad.
It is sad.
But yeah, now JonRamsey is still kind of trying to carry on the case, and it's sad that everyone thinks that they did it.
They were just under so much scrutiny, and looking back, I'm like, man, the media really...
Paid a picture.
Yeah, the media and the police, again, they were so honed in on...
That's the conspiracy in itself too, right?
They were conspiring together to frame the parents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, that's all we've got.
So I hope you guys enjoy your holiday week.
Yeah.
And Merry Christmas.
I hope Santa treats you well tonight.
And we'll see you New Year's Eve.
Colleen's going to come back with something a little more lighthearted for us.
All right.
Merry Christmas to all.
And to all.
A good night.