3SchemeQueens
Each week, hosts Kait, Colleen, and Megan take you down the rabbit hole of a brand-new conspiracy theory or mystery. From shadowy cover-ups and unexplained events to viral internet rabbit holes, they bring the tea, the facts, and the tinfoil crowns. Join the conversation, laugh along with them, and question everything. When it’s all over, they’ll tell you what they think and they’ll try to prove it to you. So grab a drink, hit follow, and tune in every Tuesday for a new episode.
3SchemeQueens
Montauk Project: Part II
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**Discussion begins at 1:00**
In the picturesque vacation town of Montauk, NY, is an abandoned air force base. Camp Hero was built in 1942, and was used by the Air Force during WWII. Between 1971 and 1983, there are reports of US government experiments in an underground bunker, to include time travel, teleportation, mind control, alien contact, and even the staging of the “fake” apollo moon landings. Allegedly, the purposes of these Cold War Experiments were to develop psychological warfare, and were performed under US authority using Nazi gold recovered during WWII. This conspiracy theory originated based on reports of Alfred Bielek and Preston Nichols who claim to be program directors of the Montauk experiments before having their memories wiped, as well as people who report having been experimented on.
Theme song by INDA
Hey, it's Colleen. Hi, it's Kate. And it's Megan. And we're the three scheme queens. Join us as we discuss popular hoaxes and give you our comedic take on what is fact and what is fiction. If you have a sense of humor and an open mind, come take this journey with us.
SPEAKER_02We'll tell you what we think and we'll try to prove it to you. Hey Foilheads, welcome back. Thanks for hanging in there with us. Here we go, part two of the Montauk Project. Enjoy.
SPEAKER_00So I don't know, guys.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Hold on. You did clarify it a lot. However, I don't know if I think these people die.
SPEAKER_00I I will say Megan sent us a video to watch like before this, and there was like two guys in it that were like recounting stories.
SPEAKER_02Are you referring to the uh Christopher Garetano documentary?
SPEAKER_00Yes, I am that guy. Yeah, Montauk Chronicles. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I'm gonna go over the other people that were in that really like really quickly here. It's not gonna be quite as in depth as this this other summary, but I'm kind of with you. So we'll talk about the documentary in a minute, too.
SPEAKER_00From now on out, we're calling 12-year-old double D Vecna.
SPEAKER_01Okay. We can just call him Final Duncan. Okay, the final form of Duncan.
SPEAKER_00The final D. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Perfect.
SPEAKER_02Let's talk about Preston Nichols now. Okay, in that documentary referencing Al Belick, Preston Nichols, and some other people will get that.
SPEAKER_01So this is another new character.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So Preston Nichols, he self-published a book in 1982 called The Montauk Project Experiments in Time. Wait, those are the guys that were in the documentary? Al Bielick was the guy in um Florida.
SPEAKER_01Of course he's in Florida.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_01So again, watch the documentary that's in the show notes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So let me tell you about Preston Nichols. He's in the documentary that Kate just referenced. Um and he self-published a book in 1982 called The Montauk Project Experiments in Time. He published this book after he, quote, recovered his memories of his time as a researcher on the project. Another one. Yes. So so far, these people we've met are not people being experimented on, except sort of Duncan we'll talk about, but like people who are running the experiment.
SPEAKER_00Oh my God. I just want everyone to know that I just suppressed a DJ Khaled. Another one. Ah, I just had a. But then you didn't suppress it.
SPEAKER_02Preston Nichols, he alleges that in the 50s, researchers from the Philadelphia experiment um wanted to continue their research. They weren't like done. And they wanted to focus on the psychological effects of magnetic field and see if they could use this, these like tools to drive the enemy insane. So they were like, you know what? We're like fighting the Germans and we could like flip a switch and they could all start like hallucinating and going crazy. And so that was their goal. They wanted to experiment so they could like try to do like psychological warfare with these people. His story is like, you know, they actually, these researchers, these higher-ups, went to Congress in the 50s. Oh, okay. You gotta, I know the timelines again are very confusing, Kate. Now we're back like pre okay into the 50s, and they were like, we want to do this research and see if we can like develop some psychological weapons. And Congress is like, no, we're not approving that budget. That's dangerous. Right. No. So what do they do? They go over Congress's head to the Department of Defense. And Department of Defense is like, yeah, let's do it. But crazy DOD. First of all, since Congress already said no, we gotta make this like top secret classified, we can't talk about it. And number two, how are we gonna pay for this? How do they pay for it, Kate? Ten billion dollars in gold stolen from the Nazis. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00We're full circle.
SPEAKER_01How did the Nazis get gold?
SPEAKER_00Wait, so this is like fight club? Yeah. Number one rule? Yeah. Don't talk about fight club? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, don't talk about the club.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Fight club, Brad Pitt. Wow.
SPEAKER_01So I didn't know Nazis movies. I didn't know Nazis had gold.
SPEAKER_00When did the Nazis get gold?
SPEAKER_01How did Nazis get gold?
SPEAKER_00Wait, was this trained in America?
SPEAKER_01We have too many questions for Megan.
SPEAKER_00She's like, guys, I scoured the internet for details about this alleged project that is so confusing.
SPEAKER_01I'm also the like this whole time travel, all this stuff is like giving me Bucky from Captain America vibes. And I'm just like Were they frozen on ice? That's what I'm saying. I'm getting re-inspired to like read Bucky stories.
SPEAKER_00Aw. I love Bucky. I love Bucky too. I know. I love Steve Rogers more. Uh I don't. That's okay. We can we can disagree on that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's fine. I have no clue what you guys were talking about, but I just want you to know that. Captain America. Yeah, what the hell?
unknownThat right.
SPEAKER_02When I type in Nazi Gold, the first thing that pops up is a Wikipedia article that talks about uh they looted the um victims.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Oh, the money from the victims of the hawk.
SPEAKER_02Like people who went to concentration camps. Victims of the Hawkins. Okay. Yeah. Oh, so that's how they got their so they get all this gold.
SPEAKER_00And um so they had it says so. This is how they funded their projects.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So in well, in 1998, Swiss Commission estimated that the Swiss National Bank held $440 million, which would have been the equivalent of $8 billion in Nazi gold. Whoa. Over half of which they think was stolen from people.
SPEAKER_00Wait, okay. Let's pump the brakes here for one second. We are trying to fund a project in the 50s, in the cold war, using Nazi gold, who we just beat in the World War II.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00This is so backwards.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I get it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And there's a lot of conspiracy theories about where remaining gold is.
SPEAKER_00Um, but I will say that it says that the Isn't there a conspiracy theory out there that Hitler like survived?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and he's in like Brazil.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I don't know if they came across this deserted. I don't know what the story was, but there was some there was a train. There was a train. But I don't know, like, was the train running? Were there like Germans on it, Nazis on it? Was it just like an abandoned train? Was there like a like a fight? Okay, so unclear how the we got the gold.
SPEAKER_01Bucky was on a train.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Bucky was on a train.
SPEAKER_01Hold on.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. Are you saying that Bucky Captain America was real? And Bucky? And Bucky.
SPEAKER_01Anyways.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so we get money, and now they're funding this experiment. We have talked about all these people, and like we haven't even really talked about like what were they doing on these experiments, right? Okay. So these experiments that allegedly happened, and so now we've done a lot of different timelines, okay? But the Montauk Project, once people did all finished their time traveling and ended up wherever they ended up, occurred 70s and 80s. Okay. Okay. Yes. Um so in the 70s, early 80s, the following experiments were allegedly happening.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_02In the bunker underneath the antenna of Montauk. Teleportation. I think we we've talked about that a lot. Yeah. Time travel, and we talked about the um porthole. Mm-hmm. There was a there was a um, it sounds like there was like initially an the what they called like an unstable porthole in time that was created, and people time traveled, and they time traveled so frequently that it like solidified, and then it became known as the time tunnel, and people could just travel to whatever time they wanted.
SPEAKER_00I'm just like getting flashes of stranger things, like that big people in the yeah for the Yeah, where is Will? Um not our friend Will, yeah, who probably is not listening to this podcast at all. That like big hole, yeah, hole and like all those scientists are just there monitoring it, and it goes into the upside down. Uh-huh. Yeah. Weird.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's giving me advice.
SPEAKER_01What else did they do?
SPEAKER_02Um alien contact. Oh, hell yeah. Here is what I love. I actually did have to send Colleen this because um in the documentary, Preston Nichols is talking about how they were um they had alien contacts. Oh my god. And they exchanged technology with the aliens. Yes. No way. No way. And that's how he got all the technology for this. And then I love because because Kate and Colleen often argue that like things couldn't have happened because we didn't have that kind of technology in that era. We got whatever technology. And like we'll talk about that when you hear the moon landing. But didn't Michael's Michael driver. Oh my god, we haven't referenced Michael this one. He did say this. Yes. Oh my god. Is Michael? I think Michael might be way smarter than Game Credit.
SPEAKER_01Wait. Everything he talked about on that Uber ride has been proven like allegedly.
SPEAKER_02Allegedly. Have we had proof-proof? No.
SPEAKER_01No proof-proof.
SPEAKER_02No proof-proof. Yeah, Press Nichols says in this clip, like, if you look at time, we had like slow advancements in time and improvements in time. And then suddenly all of a sudden, over like the last 50 years, it was just like the exponential increase in like the technology. And it's he's like, that doesn't just happen in a normal society. What happened is we met the aliens, the aliens and us, like we exchanged technology, and that's why we had this like rapid technological advancement.
SPEAKER_00Wait a second. When was the internet created? In the 90s? The 80s. Was it the 80s? 83. Shut the f up.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Holy moly. I'm dead. I'm actually dead. Shut up. Guys, this is real. This is real. This is real. We met aliens through the Montauk experiment and had internet because of it.
SPEAKER_02What would our life have been like then if we had never met the alien? If like no one had ever encountered the aliens. We wouldn't Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01The podcast wouldn't be around. To reference Twilight again, the author of Twilight wrote a second book called The Host. Have either of you read it? I have not read it. Where it's like aliens are like put into like our brains. Yeah, like the Animor Animorphs. Did you read that? Or whatever? And just like Duncan? Like how they morphed his brain. You know what I mean? Maybe. Maybe Stephanie Myers knows what's up.
SPEAKER_00Maybe. Shout out Stephanie Myers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She's crazy. So, anyways, we found the internet. The alien contact. Okay. What else?
SPEAKER_02Then they did a lot of mind control experiments. Uh, and they conducted these on homeless people and runaway boys. So is this giving you Stranger Things vibes? Yes. Um, so they underwent pretty much they were like, they would physically and mentally torture them until they broke. Yeah. And then their mind was like pliable. That's true. So that they reprogram them. So they were they and it was here's the thing too. I don't want to get into the spoiler, but I'm kind of with what Kate was implying that I have thoughts about this and like what could be true and what couldn't be true, which we'll talk about. But I think regardless of what you think, I just don't really have a lot of faith in these people that were interviewed, like Preston Nichols and Al Belick. And they all sound very sketchy. Sketchy. Um, but like, and they keep giving different numbers. Like at one point, um they say that like, oh, there were like a hundred thousand kids killed, and people are like, okay, a hundred thousand kids just like that died and nobody like can do anything. But then somewhere else they're like, oh yeah, like, you know, 10,000 kids. So it's like they they don't even know. 10,000 is so lot. Oh, it is, but I mean I was like, there's no consistency. Right. Um, yeah. Okay, so anyway, mental mind control experiments. Apparently, the AIDS virus was created.
SPEAKER_01And the internet. And the internet. And the internet. Oh. Oh, sir.
SPEAKER_02It's literally in my notes that the internet was was created. And she forgot. Someone else figured this out before Kate figured this out.
SPEAKER_00This is crazy. My god. I could hold on. I'm kind of believing this.
SPEAKER_01I a little bit, a little bit. I'm believing. Right. I feel like there are truth.
SPEAKER_02I think I got you, got gave you guys like the most absurd stuff, and now we're gonna get to the stuff where like, wait a minute.
SPEAKER_01Like, there were definitely experiments, and there was definitely shit going on. Yeah, and like this is feeling real.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then also, as we mentioned, this is where they staged the quote fake Apollo Moonland.
SPEAKER_01It was definitely fake.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna talk about the moon landing. Yeah, we have thoughts. We have very um different thoughts. We'll we'll get into that in another episode.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Okay, and so also like that's the one thing that I'm like, eh.
SPEAKER_02That's it's kind of like it's kind of like Colleen with a dog. I believe everything else, but it's kind of like Colleen with the muzzled dog in the Princess Diane episode. Like that's that's the thing. That's an obscure fact. But what about the muzzled dog? Why was it muzzled? It was in a car, anyway. That is kind of maybe you didn't want it to bark.
SPEAKER_00Maybe he was being trained or something like that.
SPEAKER_01See, guys, there was more to the dog than we really.
SPEAKER_00Maybe he didn't want him to bark because they didn't want anything to like tie him back.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Like nobody wanted to know, like well, why wouldn't he just left the dog at home then? Okay, Megan.
SPEAKER_01Send us your none of this is about the dog. Yeah, anyways, back to Montauk. Yes.
SPEAKER_02What else did they do? They were so we talked about that Montauk chair, and it's just talking about how they would like do a consciousness amplification in this Montauk chair. Uh and then they also, this is also a throwback to Stranger Things. The actually the very first experiment they had them all doing, these like kids they were studying, was the quote, seeing eye. And so these kids, or again, Duncan, who in this 12-year-old body was a genius, but he had all of these like psychic abilities. So he was one they loved to put in the Montauk chair. But um, the scene I so you would hold something like a some hair or an object that belonged to somebody, and then you could instantly see what they could see, yeah, hear what they could hear, yeah, smell what they could smell.
SPEAKER_01Is this not what a leaven could do? I got I have chills. Yeah. Eleven could do this, right? In body things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whoa. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Uh he also reported Preston Nichols that there were they housed a lot of uh different living creatures from other planets and dimensions. Um and so again, he publishes this book in 1992, and then all of a sudden these people start coming forward being like, oh yeah, kind of like that movie about the Philadelphia screen, right? Like, oh yeah, wait, I was there. I'm having memories come back.
SPEAKER_00All got warped, wiped, oblivated, is oblivated a word? It's a Harry Potter reference, and I can't believe we have gone through this many without you being like, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02No, I was like, I think she meant I think she means obliterated, but it's not gonna correct it.
SPEAKER_00Is oblivate a word, or is that maybe Harry Potter? It's oblivate is the spell that you use to work someone's memory in Harry Potter.
SPEAKER_01I treat it like a real word.
SPEAKER_00Me too. Obliviated. Yeah. It sounds like a real word. It is a real word. I believe it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Anyways.
SPEAKER_02Um We digress. We digress. So uh these people who came forward, the most famous and outspoken is Stuart Swordlow. He was also in the Montauk Chronicles documentary that you saw, and he was the one who was the first two were like, oh, I helped run it. And this guy was like, I was experimented on. What'd you think of him, Kate? Very strange individual. Yeah. Um trustworthy? Like, I would no, I would say not very reliable. I think it it sounds like he has he's might be mentally ill.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was like trying to get sort of a but I mean if they did have their like they went through all this psychological torture. Maybe they would be. I would be, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um he talks a lot about what he experienced, but then he'll say, like, um in this true, I am the only Bravo uh fan, but I do know we have a lot of listeners who enjoy Bravo, so maybe they'll understand this reference. But like on Real Housewives, they'll always have big fights because they'll be like, I can't even tell you what Kate said. It was so bad. It was so bad. But I can't even tell you. And it goes it causes the drama for the entire season, and then in the end you find out what Kate said, and it was like not a big deal.
SPEAKER_00It's like the shoes are blue, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So like they all that happens all the time in Bravo. And so I feel like he just could be he's he kept being like the things they did to me, they were so terrible I can't even tell you. And not not to minimize like people's trauma, but also like if you can't like I'm just supposed to believe that all these things happen that are so terrible you can't even tell us what they were. Yeah. Uh that was a little suspicious. Um he is kind of the most famous one, but I think he tells a story and he's looking for a little attention. Yeah. You know, yeah. Um, and then there's also another a number of other people who have come forward. Uh there was like a park employee uh who had hypnosis, and now he thinks he was one of these quote lost boys. There was someone in the documentary who like was all concealed, right? He didn't want people to know about him. Yeah. Um, so there have been um a number of people who've come out. And then, so kind of to wrap up the story and then we discuss it. Um let's talk about how the project ended. Whoa. I cannot wait for this. This this is I don't know. Yeah. And actually, I'm gonna pull up some pictures. Okay, so the Cameron brothers, uh, so this would be Al Bielick and Duncan. Right. Um Double D. Double D. Decided that this experiment had gone too far. We're crossing the lines. Finally, finally we're crossing the lines. Right. And so Duncan was in the Montauk chair and they had this code ready. So someone whispers to him while he's in the Montauk chair, which is amplifying his consciousness. Oh god. And they say, The time is now. Oh my god, they can't be shipping to it. Imagines in his brain a hairy beast. Oh my god. And because he's in this like amplification chair and he's got the psychability, it's real. No. So they unlock this the demigorgon! Yes, this this hairy beast. Oh my god. And he's running around the base causing destruction. Oh no! Uh they called him Junior. Of course they did.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's creepy. So that's really disturbing.
SPEAKER_00Wait, is it Vecna or is it the Demi Gorgon?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I forgot that there's two beasts.
SPEAKER_00And then there's also the demi dogs. Right. Yeah. Okay, but Vecna is like Spoilers for season four.
SPEAKER_01Vecna is the pr Vecna would be if Duncan became a monster, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01But this must be the demigoron.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02So Junior wreaks havoc on this base. Oh, not unlike unlike the demigorgon in Stranger Things. Right. Um, but there's kind of different stories. So there's apparently all these people who saw this monster on base had like different descriptions of what he looked like, which is okay, fine. Um, there also uh is some local lore that maybe this monster is still alive and it's being kept um under Campiro.
SPEAKER_01Should we make a date trip to Montauk? I know I mean I love Montauk. I will go back.
SPEAKER_02Apparently they filled in all these tunnels and everything underground. Yeah, that's that's weird. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They filled they cemented They cemented the tunnels underground. Juniors down there. You think? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and no, but like these documentarians are like, I can hear something juniors down there. So they yeah, they were like, there's definitely like levels like below the ground. Right. And I think there was like a um elevator shaft or something. Yeah. And so they're like, we look down, we know there's something down there, and we could they could hear things. We have to go. But also they were like trespassing on this government property.
SPEAKER_00So it's like you can't that there's like signs that say no trespass. I mean, it is it is suspicious.
SPEAKER_01I want to go there. I want to go there.
SPEAKER_00Also, if it is like not being used anymore, why don't they just knock it down?
SPEAKER_01Maybe they're still feeding Junior. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Why were the tunnels filled in? So that Junior can't get out. Yeah, but oh. Isn't that suspicious? Don't be suspicious. That's weird. Don't be suspicious.
SPEAKER_02That's suspicious. Yeah, that's weird. So there are some people who um who think that this monster is still alive, right? Uh, but there was also this this is real. This has been proven. Oh my god. We got proof proof on this. Oh, we got proof proof. We got real proof. This animal washes ashore in Montauk in 2008. This dead carcass. Oh my god. That looks like this. We got a picture. I'm gonna show you guys, and we'll post it, post it on social media.
SPEAKER_01I'm frightened.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00Wait a second. Okay, you guys, it looks like oh my gosh, it looks like a pig, sort of, that is in a manatee's body, but also somewhat like a bear.
SPEAKER_02But also sort of like a pig. I feel like it's I feel like it's pig size.
SPEAKER_00And the mouth is like there's so many teeth, it's wide open.
SPEAKER_02So this this creature washed ashore in 2008. Now they did say um. The thing is horrifying. That they thought this could be an animal from a nearby Plum Island, and they wanted these like crypt cryptozoologists to come and study this carcass. But it's got a tail. Wouldn't you know it? The body disappeared before anyone could study it. Of course it did. Oh my god. And then another one also similar wash up in 2020.
SPEAKER_00This is a demi dog.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that makes much more sense. Here's actually my impression of the dog. Yeah, it does look small. Is I think that if you look at some of the pictures, I think it could just be like a dog or something that has like partially um it was like in the water swow in and it started to kind of decompose. But the mouth. Um, but I think they the mouth could be like partial decomposition.
unknownLet's see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but how did the body just disappear and then I'm going to studies on it? Decide to believe that it's a monster.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a demi dog. Because if that's a dog, that's I think it looks small.
SPEAKER_02No, but I mean it looks, I don't think it's like the eight feet or ten feet that some people were describing. This monster looks small. It looks small, but so if you're saying it's a it's like the demi dog. It's like the demi dogs. No, I can work with that. Yep. Um, and the rest of them are just making a ruckus underneath the word.
SPEAKER_00They just got burned or something. Get out. Oh my gosh, hold on. The ship? Stop. Wait. Philadelphia is not far from New York. The dog was on the ship.
SPEAKER_02Why would they have a dog on the ship?
SPEAKER_00And maybe it got the demi dog got sucked back into time. Like followed them. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_00Maybe that's maybe that's what they were trying to stop. Maybe they were like, this is a problem with the demi dogs have gotten up.
SPEAKER_01This is crazy.
SPEAKER_02Guys, I kind of believe this shit. I mean, I do, I do too. I have I do have it. I have questions. Okay. I have a couple of like theories that people have offered up as like alternative theories. And I'll tell you what I think, and then I want to hear what you guys think. Okay. Um, so there was a local Paul Fagan who spent 14 years studying the space, and he thinks that there was probably like a nuclear reactor that was buried. It's part of like the Cold War. Oh, so it's like and so that's it was bit that's why they had to fill it in with um concrete radiation. And that's why secretive.
SPEAKER_01I don't like this Paul Fagan guy. Yeah. He doesn't like to make-believe.
SPEAKER_02But oh, and he he thinks that maybe these this story was all like a distractor from like the scary shit that was actually happening. It will be noted they've had multiple surveys done, and there's definitely something below the base, but they have no blueprints or maps or anything. Of course they don't. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Of course they don't. So there's that it was destroyed. Um, and I also saw there was an I guess another theory. I want to go back to the monster for one second. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So the the this so double D, who's in the chair, final D. Yeah, final, final D. Final D is in the chair. Yeah. And um, he summons this monster. And the monster goes in and he like destroys everything and everyone. Does this not sound like Vecna in season four? Yeah, I can see it. When like L is like the only one that survives. I can see it. Yeah, and she's remembering the only one. She's remembering like that horror scene.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00So I that's why I'm like, is double D Vecna? Is Final D Vecna? And he's and and he destroyed everything, except I don't know, people got out, apparently, because there are some eyewitnesses to say that they were there. And allegedly. Allegedly. And the upside down is the time warp, the time capsule that people can walk through. The time tunnel? That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01The time tunnel, yeah. Oh, and then they cemented it shut. And they cemented it shut. Whoa. Except for the elevator shaft.
SPEAKER_00So hold on a second. Is double D the one who's still down there? Is that who you hear? Is it Vecna?
SPEAKER_01Because we don't know how Duncan finally died, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he just suddenly is not talked about anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean someone's.
SPEAKER_00Feel free to feel free to comment or email us and let us know what happened to Duncan, but um What if this monster wasn't actually summoned, it was just him. And he created himself. Because that's what happened. That's what happened. He becomes the monster. This is hurting my brain. Actually, I guess he gets sucked into the upside down, then he becomes the monster.
SPEAKER_02So so it sounds like are we you guys leaning towards parts of this maybe true?
SPEAKER_01I think that yeah, there are kernels of truth.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because what I want is okay I believe that the government could like conduct yeah experiments.
SPEAKER_02Um the government has conducted experiments. What?
SPEAKER_00Are you gonna- No, wait a second.
SPEAKER_01No, there's proof?
SPEAKER_00There's there's proof-proof.
SPEAKER_02There's proof-proof? When did this happen? It is yeah, okay, so we now know that there have been declassified projects on paranormal phenomena, like multiple times over, you know, multiple eras by our US government. So in 1978, um, Project Stargate occurred at Fort Meade in Maryland, DMV. Um, and uh they focused on this like remote viewing, and I guess like the what I get that the seeing eye type experiments. Um and they denied it happened, but then eventually they declassified it and everyone's like, no, it definitely happened. Right. There's no question the government's like, yep, we did it. It's bad. Okay. Whoa. So 1995, they ended the study and they declassified it, and now you can go online and read about it. Project Stargate. But the bigger one, MK Ultra.
SPEAKER_01Sounds like a beer I like.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, McUltra. Mick Ultra. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um shout out to the Berkey fam. We all like that beer.
SPEAKER_02Water. Yeah, I was about to say it's not the not my beer of choice. Uh locale, I guess, but water. Yeah. Um uh CIA program from 1953 to 1973, and it researched methods to manipulate brain function. So they did a lot of different things. They gave like psychoactive drugs, electroshock, sleep, sensory deprivation, hypnosis, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, torture. And they used um, this is like again, dark, dark area of our history, right? They used like um mental patients, prisoners, drug addicts, prostitutes. Um that's sad. And it is really sad. And they had no like medical or scientific oversight. In fact, one Frank Olson um was given a heroin unknowingly, and then he committed suicide. Um and so anyway, I guess it's just like this has now been, it was declassified in 2001. People have come out and apologized. This definitely happened. We have like veterans who have come out and been like, yeah, I was studied in these studies. But the point is it's like the government, this is what I've seen about all these conspiracy theories. Like, you can't say the government would never do this because they've straight up been like, yeah, we did it. Oops, that was embarrassing. Right, right. So I think it's like not outside the realm of possibility that there were like Yeah, they were definitely doing studies, yeah, doing studies. I don't know if I trust all these people that were like that they're reliable. Time travel and all that jazz be like, but like I I could believe that there was studies happening. Oh, yeah. And I do want to just throw the MK Ultra before before Kate gives us her perspective. I just want to throw this back in and come full circle with Stranger Things that um Eleven's mom ultra-like experiment. Oh my gosh. While she was pregnant with Eleven, and that's how Eleven got her power, her psychic abilities.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Um so this is crazy, and we know too about like all these drug, like the the dolphin experiments. Shut up when they were giving the dolphins the LSD and trying to teach them how to speak English.
SPEAKER_00No, no, you guys have heard about this, right? Yes, but you know, we could do an episode on it.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's no conspiracy. The lady's like, yeah, it definitely happened. Did they speak? No, they paid this this lady moved to like um the Bahamas or something, yeah, and like lived. This is absolutely wild. A dolphin. Yeah. So there's like um, if you look at you can look at pictures online, we'll post them. It's like it's like it looks kind of like a little like apartment with like water, like you know, which is. She just like lived with it. Yeah, but it gets it gets real inappropriate because the the dolphin couldn't focus, he was like a hormonal adolescent and couldn't focus on his studies, and so she had to get him to focus back helping him out.
SPEAKER_00That woman had sexual relations with that dolphin.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Our bombs are all cringing right now. No, um she's like, I relieved him and then I could get him to focus for an hour. And she would uh but they would give him LSD because people really thought that like that they could teach these dolphins to talk. And spoiler alert, dolphins don't talk. Right. Allegedly. Allegedly. Um so I'm just saying that.
SPEAKER_00They have better they should know better that it's about the gorillas. Yeah, you gotta do it on the gorillas. Planet of the apes. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um so but I think for sure they're like we have all again, all this evidence where they've been like, we've done these studies, we've given drugs to people unknowingly, uh unknowingly to animals, we've experimented on the city.
SPEAKER_01They're not above experiments.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they definitely though have like targeted at-risk populations, like perhaps young children. This is awful or homeless people. So I 100% I don't believe the time travel aspect of it.
SPEAKER_00Um MK Ultra, I'm sorry, sounds a lot like Montauk. Do we think that it just got transferred somewhere else? Because the government put a stop to it, right?
SPEAKER_02They were like this is 1973, and then you think someone was like, I'm not done exactly.
SPEAKER_00Someone was like, you know what? I'm gonna keep doing this.
SPEAKER_01Or maybe they declassified aspects of it to like get our attention away. Well, it wasn't declassified until until recently. Like two, well, like 2001, but experiment ended in the 70s, yeah. So like maybe they declassified it because people were getting so suspicious about what was happening. Oh, in Montague. And then they're like, Yeah, we did it.
SPEAKER_02And then but kind of like the aliens, yeah, and like if they tell you this part, like a little bit of the truth, then you'll ignore the rest of it. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I was about to say, kind of like when they told us that aliens were real. Yeah, yeah. And no one cared. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Zero.
SPEAKER_02I care. I care.
SPEAKER_00Hold on.
SPEAKER_01But like you weren't, you weren't like oh yeah, because I knew that aliens are I already believed in aliens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I think too, the other one of the other theories that I saw online too was like, okay, if they were doing some of these kind of like on page with us, like if something was happening here, but maybe not to the extent that these people are claiming, like maybe they were drugging these people, giving them LSD or whatever. And so now they're having hallucinating.
SPEAKER_00Oh that this is someone happy stuff, yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, you mess with people's minds, you you get not good historians. Yeah. And start hallucinating. Your memories are not accurate. So I think Oh, your memories are repressed. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_01I think my opinion in the end is that a hundred percent they were experimenting on things, a hundred percent they were doing suspicious activity, like experimenting on people's minds, animals, whatever. But I don't, like you said, I don't think time travel was one of them. I think these historians, the people who have come forward to talk about this, Al, whatever, like he sh he was just tortured on. You know what I mean? Like, there's no way. There's no way.
SPEAKER_00Okay, going back to the Philadelphia experiment. I'm going to give an option in which this could happen.
SPEAKER_01All right, here we go. Earth 44.
SPEAKER_00I would like to say that this is the option I'm presenting that if people could buy into it, this is the option. But I would also like to go on record and say, I don't necessarily believe this one.
SPEAKER_02She's just devil's advocate in the show.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna, yeah. I am going to say that yes, the government has done something sketchy at Montauk. Yes, it could be mind control that they were working on because that was a big thing during like this was all coming out, like you know, after World War II, the Cold War. Yeah, they're trying to develop tactics because we were in such a a state that it was very like touch and go. Are we gonna go to war with Russia and the USSR? And so they were trying to come up with tactics to use in a military fashion. So they were trying to come up with mind control, you know, whatever, uh, which is not whatever. But that's they were doing that. I believe that they were doing that, and that's what they're saying with MK Ultra is that yeah, we were we were conducting c experiments, but let's talk about there are too many things that happened in Montauk that are it's just the the the filling of the tunnels, the huge antenna for what they don't even they won't even say what the montauk building was used for. It was built.
SPEAKER_01There's too much unknown.
SPEAKER_00There's way too much unknown, and then they just like it just gets shut down. Why? Like there is something that happened there. Yeah, maybe there is still a Vecna like creature down in there. I don't know. Maybe that is really where we got the internet in 1983. I believe that we had some sort of extraterrestrial ET moment in not in Montauk. Um, sure, we could we could go with that. Maybe we met the aliens and they're the ones that landed on the moon. And that's the footage we used. Um, so that is that's where I stand as far as like I think something happened. I think there's a lot of questions. I think that it is very gray, and I think it's intentionally gray. They want us to not know. It's the the banana antenna, come on. Keeping us on our toes. Uh, they were definitely trying to do something with that antenna.
SPEAKER_02Well, I thought the purpose of the antenna was like if we were to be attacked, like that's a port city, right? That's like uh the coast. And so that was gonna be one of our like eastern defense systems. Um, and so I thought that that was kind of the purpose of the antenna was like to kind of be radar and like alert us if But it's an Air Force base.
SPEAKER_00Why wouldn't it be a navy base? That's a ship.
SPEAKER_02Well, I did say port because I meant it was coastal, is what I'm trying to say.
SPEAKER_00Like also, why were the tunnels? Don't be reasonable, Megan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Megan, come on. Um why were the tunnels like filled in? That's just weird. There's just too much. That's weird. Okay, let's let's give you option B, in which uh Al Belec was booted out of the Montauk project, wasn't he? Well, he ended he and they ended it.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yes, with this whole plan about the time is now.
SPEAKER_01Oh, right. I forgot already.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. So he that's remember we thought last week that maybe by ending it he pissed someone off yes, and then somehow got that then he gets thrown back in time. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So he pissed somebody off, maybe double D. Final D. Final D. Uh Vecna and booted him to another timeline, booted him to a different dimension. That's the only we're like way I don't know, like believe that anything like that happened.
SPEAKER_01I don't know, man. This whole thing is like Megan, what do you believe?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think it I think something happened. Not I definitely don't believe Stuart Swordlow. He was the guy in the documentary he was telling his story. Yeah. Don't believe so. I don't I don't know if I believe these individuals we have here.
SPEAKER_00Like they were the ones that were getting like experimented on experimented on, but maybe not like you know, they're putting them in a chair and trying to reach other dimensions. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02No. Maybe they're like giving them some LSD when they're like 10 years old. Right.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's so sad.
SPEAKER_02Making them try to crush Diet Coke cans with their mind.
SPEAKER_01If I got free Diet Coke out of it, I probably would try.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure, I'll do that. Yeah. Free left down supply in a lot of trauma. Do you tell me all I gotta do is a little LSD for my coke?
SPEAKER_01A left time supply of Diet Coke and trauma.
SPEAKER_02Already got it. We really want Diet Coke to sponsor us, guys.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah. Yeah. This one was fun. This one, yeah, we'll defer to you guys. What do you guys think? Because it's wild.
SPEAKER_01I'm having a hard time with this.
SPEAKER_02It's very complicated. And I feel like really the timelines make it like it like my head really hurts now. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I just think that like, no wonder the brothers heard about this conspiracy and was like, let's make this a show. It it's good material. It's good material.
SPEAKER_02And Colleen often says, like, this story you're telling is like good TV. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01This is good. Yeah, this is good. It I mean, I've watched the show, so it I love the show.
SPEAKER_00I can't wait for season five. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The final season. Yeah, the final season. Maybe they'll fill the tunnel final D.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh my God. Um, I would like to pose that in a future podcast episode we can cover season five of the on our stranger.
SPEAKER_01When we're famous and you guys pay us to do extras, we'll do this for you. Yeah. When we have a Patreon or subscription side, but uh yeah, I guess that's the Montauk experiment.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the Montauk experiment. So what's our poll gonna be for our listeners, Kate? What what what are their options?
SPEAKER_00Okay, A Montauk project never happened. There was never anything shady. The they just used it as some sort of like defense place to monitor for planes and boats, like some kind of military base during a war.
SPEAKER_02I roll. Okay.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't after a war. It was like during the Cold War. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01Okay, B.
SPEAKER_00Um, B, something shady happened in Montauk that we don't know about.
SPEAKER_01Shippy shady.
SPEAKER_00Shippy shady, yeah. C, secret opposite option C. Uh the Philadelphia experiment worked and all of these time hopping places happened. Wow. And uh Al Belec, you know, was on Earth 44 where the Montauk experiment actually happened and got booted off the timeline by Double D Vecna, who was actually just creating havoc on eight uh Earth 44. Okay. And um that's where that's why his re repressed memories come back because he's like, wait, this happened to me, but it wasn't on the same timeline.
SPEAKER_02So when we post that uh poll, we're gonna have to shorten options down, but thank you, Kate.
SPEAKER_01Secret option C. Yeah. Can I insert option D? Yeah, no, I just wanted to make a D joke. Okay.
SPEAKER_02D's nuts. Yeah. Okay, children.
SPEAKER_01Um shout out to Burma Boy.
SPEAKER_02All right, thanks for joining us. I think that's it. Anything else you guys have? No, I got nothing. Yeah, all right. Thanks for watching. Well, guys, thanks for joining us, spoil heads, and we look forward to seeing you next Tuesday on three scheme queens.