JFK Assassination Part 2: Conspiracy or Not?

**Discussion begins at 7:00**

November 22, 1963: The President and Vice President are on a campaign tour through Texas in preparation for the 1964 re-election.  Secret Service was told to back off so that the president seemed more “approachable”.  While riding in a convertible with his wife, Jackie, Texas governor John Connally, and Connally’s wife, Nellie, they departed Love Field.  The route had been published in the newspaper, and so thousands of residents had gathered along the streets, as the motorcade proceeded through the streets of downtown Dallas.  As it passed through Dealey Plaza at around 12:30 PM, shots rang out from the crowd.  The number of shots and originating location are up for debate, but in the end, Governor Conally and President Kennedy were shot, with Kennedy being pronounced dead approximately 30 minutes later at nearby Parkland Hospital.  Approximately 45 minutes later, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested.  The 24 year old marine veteran, and employee at the Texas School Book Depository, was accused of shooting and killing police officer J.D. Tippit with a different gun, before hiding out in a movie theater.  Within 2hrs of JFK’s murder, Oswald was in police custody and accused of both murders.  Unfortunately, he was shot while being escorted by police officers 48 hours later.  The gunman of his murder was identified as Jack Ruby, a local club owner with mob connections.  The following day, Kennedy is buried at Arlington National Cemetary.  But was this all tied up a little too neatly? Does the evidence match the public story?  Was JFK really assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone?  Or is there more to the story that has been covered up?

Source Material and Additional Content

Transcript

Hey guys. 

Hey, how's it going? 

How's it going guys? 

I just want to talk about the twins that got married. They didn't just get married, it just got released to the public. Yeah, they got married in 2021. 

I’m intrigued more now than I was before. 

There is someone for everyone. 

Yeah, love is love. 

I'm just intrigued by the anatomy. 

I think that all the time in... in life, I look around and I see couples and I'm like, dang, there's really someone for everyone. 

Guys, I put Megan on Farmer’s Only, and I totally lied. 

No, the problem is that you had to identify what kind of farmer you were in order to be on it. And so she said that I was into chickens and raw dairy, and I was getting messages about like the raw dairy. 

What kind of cow’s do you use? 

My cousins use Brown Swiss. 

I'd like a Jersey cow. 

Is raw dairy even legal in our state? 

No. 

Okay. 

In Pennsylvania, yes. 

Kait has big dreams of commuting up to Pennsylvania for her raw dairy. 

Yeah, I want raw dairy. 

We gotta go to my cousin's farm. It's only two hours away. 

I wanna go to her. 

Yeah, day trip. 

Going back to the twins - If I was a conjoined twin, right away I am consenting to my body to science.

Oh, 100%. 

Yeah, immediately. There'd be no question in my mind. Donate me. 

But what if the other head said ‘no?’ 

I'd fight her. 

Oh, I didn't even think about it. Can you have conjoined different genders? 

No, because I think you have to be identical. Can we ask you this question because you weren't present for Eriksson twins... Do you know any, are you an expert on conjoined twins? 

No. 

Okay. Well, can you answer this question? 

That felt like something I would say. 

Is it possible? for a nose, a pair of conjoined twins to be born with a nose fused to a spine. 

Oh yeah. 

Oh yeah. I think it can happen. 

Because in my mind, they always just kind of split kind of like these twins, right? So they are separate to like the liver and then they share everything below. I had a hard time believing that a nose could be fused to a back, but Colleen seemed to think it was possible. 

I don't necessarily know if it would be like a joined twin moment, but I do think skin can fuse.

Like, I think maybe each twin was created, but their skin fused to it because your skin at some point is still moldable and soft. 

Did they share a sack? 

You know, there it was so hard to find information on these twins, so I'm sure that's not out there. And it's really just people who knew them from childhood who claimed that they were conjoined. 

Your mom had what? 

There was one placenta and two babies in a sack. 

That's the rarest. And Grammy said there were so many doctors. 

Yeah. 

But she birthed them naturally. 

Hey, Carol. 

We love you, Grammy. She uses Alexa to listen to us, because she doesn't know how to find it.

OK, I love that. 

Speaking of fans... Yeah. I've got a couple shout outs, guys. As far as our coffee donations. Our biggest donor yet… is Sarah from Bethesda. 

Hey, Sarah. 

Oh, thank you, Sarah. 

Sarah, pop off, Queen. 

And you guys we have such a sweet five-star review on Apple. “What a wonderful group of women. When I have felt sad and alone, this podcast turns my mind around. They are so funny, but also so knowledgeable with their ability to research a large range of conspiracy theories. They have opened my eyes to so many things. Fabulous smart women that make you think, laugh, and possibly question the world around you.” 

Oh, thank you. 

That's so nice. 

Cute. 

We also had a really nice one from Bourbon Boy saying that he would listen to us talk about paint drying. 

Oh, what a guy. 

But it got posted under Kait. So I think people look at it and are like, ‘man, this host is just hyping up her own pod’

You ever watch paint drying though? 

Thank you to Sarah and thank you to Beth for all this support. 

Thanks, Bethany. 

Again, don't forget to check out our Facebook and Instagram pages. That's 3SchemeQueens, the number 3, Scheme Queens. All one word. If you want to check out our website at 3schemequeens.com, you can find links to our social media accounts, our Buzzsprout page, all of our episodes, additional content, and our contact page. Let us know how we're doing or what you want to hear next. There's also opportunities to financially support us. There are links to buy us a cup of coffee, links to our merch store, and Amazon affiliate links to additional content related to the topics that we have covered. And as always, even if you choose not to financially support us, we appreciate the follows, the downloads, the listens, the likes. 

Yeah. And whenever you're finished with this podcast, just... Scroll on down. Give us a five-star review. Leave a comment… if you leave us a comment we'll read it on air just like we did today.  Share us with your friends, share us on your social media, and give us some feedback guys… 

Is it time for our drink check? 

I mean whoever who ever made that drink for you definitely nailed the ice ratio. 

We are drinking an ice cold Cape Codder.  Lot of ice, lot of Cran, splash of lime over bubble water, and a little bit of vodka. 

Can't you just see JFK on the Kennedy compound enjoying one of these?

I can smell the Cape Cod and I can hear a whale. 

This reminds me of being in the club, like, you know, your 20s, they're like bringing you vodka and cranberry. 

There’s a lime in Cape Cod. It makes it a little fancier. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, I can see him on his, is he in Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard? 

I think they're Martha's Vineyard. 

I think Martha's Vineyard. 

Yeah. On his sailboat. 

I've actually seen their Cape Cod house cause if you do a whale tour out of P-Town, you drive past all the Kennedys and Taylor Swift's house. And you see whales, a lot of whales. 

I guess we're going to P-Town. 

Whales? 

Guess we're going. 

Let's go, Bruins. 

So we're back though guys for part two of JFK. 

November 22, 1963, the president and vice president are on a campaign tour through Texas in preparation for the 1964 re-election. Secret Service was told to back off so that the president seemed more approachable. While riding in a convertible with his wife Jackie, Texas Governor John Connolly, and Connolly's wife Nellie, they departed Love Field. The route had been published in the newspaper and so thousands of residents had gathered along the streets as the motorcade proceeded through the streets of downtown Dallas. As they passed through Dealey Plaza at around 1230 p.m., shots rang out from the crowd. The number of shots and originating location are up for debate, but in the end, Governor Connolly and President Kennedy were shot, with Kennedy being pronounced dead approximately 30 minutes later at nearby Parkland Hospital. Approximately 45 minutes later, Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested. The 24-year-old Marine veteran and employee at the Texas Schoolbook Depository was accused of shooting and killing police officer J.D. Tibbett with a different gun before hiding out in a movie theater. Within two hours of JFK's murder, Oswald was in police custody and accused of both murders. Unfortunately, he was shot while being escorted by police officers 48 hours later. The gunman of his murder was identified as Jack Ruby, a local club owner with mob connections. The following day, Kennedy is buried at Arlington National Cemetery. But was this all tied up just a little too neatly? Does the evidence match the public story? Was JFK really assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone, or is there more to the story that has been covered up? 

So now I'm gonna tell you guys… I kept referencing like the Warren report and the official investigations. 

Right. 

So now I'm gonna tell you about the government's official investigations. On November 29th, 1963, seven days into his presidency, LBJ appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to investigate. This was suggested by his advisors due to the distress that occurred as a result of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot. So everyone was like, what's going on? JFK suddenly gets murdered, then his murderer is suddenly dead. What is the government covering up? And here we are 60 years later... So the Warren Commission creates this report. It took 10 months and they interviewed 552 witnesses. The findings were that: 

“There is no evidence that either Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby was part of any conspiracy domestic or foreign to assassinate President Kennedy. The shots which killed President Kennedy and wounded Governor John Connolly were fired by Lee Harvey Oswald. The Commission has found no evidence that anyone assisted Oswald in planning or carrying out the assassination. The Commission has found no evidence to show that Oswald was employed, persuaded, or encouraged by any foreign government to assassinate Kennedy or that he was an agent of any foreign government. No direct or indirect relationship between Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby has been discovered by the Commission, nor has it been able to find any credible evidence that either knew the other. The Commission has found no evidence that Jack Ruby acted with any other person in the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald. There is no evidence that the extreme views expressed toward President Kennedy by some right-wing groups centered in Dallas or any other General atmosphere of hate or right-wing extremism which may have existed in the city of Dallas had any connection with Oswald's actions on November 22nd”

Okay, so pretty much they're saying Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He did it alone. It was not a conspiracy and Jack Ruby was just a random guy who shot him. 

Okay, I Don't believe it. 

Yeah. 

Well, there were a lot of issues. So I'll go through the issues with the commission and then the issues with their theory. 

Go watch the video of Lee Harvey Oswald being told that he's being charged for killing the president. His eyes say it all. 

So issues with the commission… The media had been bribed with early leaks in exchange for not questioning the reports. And we have proof, proof of this. 

Proof, proof. 

So... You know, they go, OK, here we go, there's all these photo ops you can see of them with the massive report. You know, like, here it comes. We've officially released it. That thing is like this thick. 

Well, OK, that's what she said. 

And within minutes, the news is reporting on it and what the findings were. So obviously, they had early access to the report. And the thought is, this was an exchange for like, if you don't question it, then we'll give it to you early, snd then you can really be like first out with the news story. 

OK. And so we know that they made this deal with… 

So the government was conspiring with the media. Wow, that's not something I'd ever think they do. 

Yeah, never heard of such a thing. 

So we know that CBS, NBC, and New York Times in particular were all kind of involved in this.

Yeah. 

Dulles was the head of the CIA. He was fired by JFK in 1961. He's on this commission. Do you think that like an irate employee that you fired should be investigating your murder? 

No. 

Also, there's a lot of conspiracies that the CIA was involved. It just seems like a lot of conflict of interest. And then Gerald Ford was on the commission. He was Hoover's buddy. Now again, Hoover is the head of the FBI. And we know factually that Gerald Ford was leaking classified discussions to Hoover on a weekly basis. 

Oh my God. 

I mean, that's fishy to be like, we're having these classified discussions, but I'm just going to keep... 

No, that's weird. 

Updating my buddy who's the head of the FBI. I told you that Dr. Perry before and after had been adamant about the entrance wound being the front and the exit wound being the back. But this whole commission, we'll talk about it, has this single bullet theory. We'll get to it. But it doesn't... So Dr. Perry, we talked about he had kind of a firm story that never changed except kind of like during this Warren commission. He claims he was bullied by Secret Service to say that the entrance wound was in the back of the head because that was the only way that it would match up with their story. 

Right. 

And then they picked and chose the witnesses that they could use that would fit their story. So one of Lee Harvey Oswald's co-workers was able to counter the story because they claim that Lee Harvey Oswald fled down the stairwell, okay? But this lady's like, well, I was in the stairwell and I didn't see him. And they're like, oh, no, well, that's not true. And she's like, no, seriously. And I was with my buddy so-and-so, we should interview her. And they're like, we don't need to interview her, we've got you. And then she's like, well, this is not how it happened. Can I participate in the reenactment? And they were like, no, we're good. It's like they just picked and chose. They had a story and they just wanted to make everyone else fit their story. 

It reminds me of that, what's the Netflix documentary that just came out? American Nightmare? Yeah. The Gone Girl. The police basically thought that she was spinning her own story and that she was a gone girl. 

Oh my God. 

And they basically stopped investigating cause they only saw what they wanted to.  

You got to watch it. But it was very, you ever seen Unbelievable? It was kind of like that. And then Hoover, the head FBI actually sent a memo to Johnson that they did not have a case for Lee Harvey Oswald. Then he sent a second memo that they needed to present some proof to appease the public. So did they just decide to create some proof in order to appease the public? Why were pivotal witnesses to the autopsy not interviewed for the Warren commission?  So yeah, a lot of people have come forward to say they were interviewed, but then they weren't actually called to testify because they had evidence that did not track with the official story. And now the issues with the actual Warren Commission theory, okay? They alleged that three shots were fired, okay? If more than three shots were fired, it would be impossible for this to have been Lee Harvey Oswald alone, okay? So that's what's kind of key here is more than three shots means there was a conspiracy. 

Yeah, three shots or less is the only way that Lee Harvey Oswald story stands. 

So remember the governor was also shot. So Arlen Specter, who was kind of like the head prosecutor here, he went on to serve 30 years in the Senate after all of this. He devised this single bullet theory that a single bullet killed Kennedy and then hit the governor. 

Okay. 

So they claim the first shot came in from the back, passed through Kennedy's neck and exited through his throat before striking Connolly beneath the right scapula, exiting below his right nipple, going through his wrist and lodging in his thigh. Then they think the second shot missed and the third shot hit JFK in the head from the back. Okay, so this is what they talk about the magic bullet. Like how did this single bullet, again, pass through Kennedy's neck, exit his throat, strike Connolly beneath the right scapula, exit below his right nipple, go through his wrist and lodge in his thigh. So here's the diagram. I'll post for you guys. 

Yeah, that's like the magic bullet. 

Yeah. Now I will say that if you, there's a second photo here that, this is Connolly. So Connolly was actually in a jump seat, like a pull down seat. It might not have been like a regular seat, in which case you can sort of make this bullet line up. 

Okay. 

But the bullet was not damaged. This bullet would have had to have gone through, it's like seven layers and two bones. And it came out pristine and- 

There's just no way. 

Yeah. Right . 

And this third shot, them saying it came from the back doesn't make sense. 

Actually, there were two different bullets, they think, that were used, so not the same weapon, right? First two bullets were like these, I can't, I don't know what the term was, but it's supposed to like wound somebody on the battlefield and get them off the battlefield, but not kill them. And then the third one that blew off the back of his head is like a high destruction. It'll like, pssh. 

Right. 

Right? So again, not from the same gun. Connolly maintains that he heard a shot before he was shot. So this argument that the first shot went through JFK and into Connolly, Connolly's like, no, there was a shot. Then I was hit. So he doesn't believe this theory. 

He's the one who was hit. 

Yeah. 

And then there were street level witnesses who reported smelling gunpowder. And so- 

Oh, so somebody in the audience. 

Yes, because Oswald was in a building, right? 

Correct. And so the gunpowder smell would be from around the gun. If he's up on the sixth floor, why are people on the ground smelling it? 

Somebody's walking around having killed the president. That's crazy. 

And again, the research actually looked at the weather conditions that day, the wind and all of that, and they're like, yeah, if you smelled gunpowder, it had to have come from that area. 

How many people said they smelled gunpowder? 

It just says there were multiple street level witnesses. 

OK. So yeah, but the vice president Johnson, he didn't… he believed Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, but he didn't believe the single bullet theory. And then RFK, he always thought there were multiple shooters involved because he had advisors that were with Kennedy that day who were witness to the whole thing. 

Yeah. 

And so anyway, it sounds like there definitely wasn't just one bullet. 

Yeah, there's no way there's no way it was one bulle, or one shooter. 

Yeah. 

Oh, yeah. 

The single bullet. 

No, I mean, they're saying they were two bullets. It's pretty much like there was the single bullet that hit them both. Then one of them, they know. missed and then a third one hit him in the back of the head. 

Right. Yeah. 

And the only way for that to be the case is if Lee Harvey Oswald did it by himself. For their theory to work is if that is how it happened. 

Okay. 

And that doesn't make sense. 

We know he, we know that he was shot from the front just based on that video. 

Yeah, you can see it. 

And we don't believe that a single shot went zigzagged through JFK and Connolly. Also, if you look at the parade, the motorcade route, so the car comes down through Dealey Plaza and if someone was shooting from the book depository, he had a straight shot as the motorcade approached him, but instead they're arguing that he waited for this car to turn, go by all these trees, create an obstructed view, and then he shot the president? 

Yeah. Doesn't make sense. 

Doesn't make any sense. 

There were also some issues with the chain of custody of this magic bullet. So can we even trust our evidence? There are no prints anywhere, like on any of the casings or anything. And then there's this reporter who said he went into the depository with a secret service, like right after this happened, and he filmed the scene before it had even been touched. And he filmed them picking up three casings that were all kind of clustered together. But if you believe this story, the casings would not have all been clustered by the window, they would have kind of been thrown and spread out. So then there was this like illustration released where the casings were all spread out. And this reporter is like, that's not what I have on film, that's not what we saw. So why are they staging a photo? 

Because they want it to match their story. 

Right, right. And then the other thing, this kind of goes back to like the MH370 theories we talked about. Like if you're trying to do like, have like a terrorist attack, you would want to claim responsibility, right? Like if Lee Harvey Oswald did this for political purposes. 

You would want to brag about it almost. 

Yeah, it's not a good, if you haven't like taken responsibility and like gotten your message out, then what is the point? Like you'd think that, you know, when they were like, did you do it? Do you have any lost words? He'd have been like…

It's right there. His head goes back. I don't understand. 

And then many years later, we see the Zapruder film. So that's kind of what you're looking at right there. So to be clear, that did not come out right away. 

Oh, okay. 

But Zapruder, excuse me, was a designer who lived in Dallas and he actually was filming, you know, the motorcade and he captured this on film. And so, kind of what you're looking at there, Kait, J.F.K goes behind the sign, and when he comes back into view, he's clutching his neck. Yeah. 

And that's like 1.5 seconds later. Connolly is shot. Yeah. 

So again, we think total of three shots were done within 5.6 seconds. And two of them were fired within 2.7 seconds based on that. CBS special had 10 expert marksmen attempt to recreate it with a moving target. Only one was able to complete that task and that was only after multiple attempts and even he didn't think that Lee Harvey Oswald would have been capable of doing it. It is incredibly challenging and people are arguing that Lee Harvey Oswald was not that great a marksman. So Paul Landis was Secret Service. He was assigned to Jackie and he actually left Secret Service after a few months. He had some trauma from all of this, obviously. I mean like appropriately so I think I would too. But he read this book in 2014 where they talk about that magic bullet that was found in Connolly stretcher when he arrived in Parkland. And that's how this whole single bullet theory came about. Because they're like, Oh, we've got the bullet. This is this is how it must have happened. So then he comes forward and he's like, guys, I found a bullet. They also talk about this on that doctor documentary. But he's like, when we got to the hospital and Jackie got out of the limo, there was a bullet sitting on the seat. And I didn't want something to happen to it. So I picked it up. And I took it inside to the hospital and I set it next to the president's stretcher because I thought this is a good place for it. I don't want it to disappear. So if you believe his story that he found this bullet in the car and set it next to the president in the hospital, then that would indicate that bullet had struck Kennedy in the back and become dislodged as opposed to penetrating Connolly. So anyway, again, it's like if you believe any of these other stories, it ruins their single bullet required in order to say it was one shooter. But again, some of this information kind of trickled out. So Warren Commission, that was the big investigation they did, and they said, yep, Lee Harvey Oswald did it. He did it alone. 

No way. 

So then in 1975, the Church committee, Senator Church was from Idaho, they do an investigation into the CIA, FBI, NSA, and IRS. Part of this investigation was to look at the Warren Commission's investigation. So they interview 50 witnesses, they review 3000 documents and they're like, man, there's some issues here with how this information was obtained. This is a deficient investigation. We need to create like a committee to just investigate the JFK assassination. 

Right, right. 

So they create the House Select Committee on Assassinations. It actually was supposed to look at MLK Jr. and JFK's assassinations. And so this investigation went on from 1976 to 1979. And their report was that they did not believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. ‘The committee therefore concluded that the testimony of witnesses in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963, supported the finding of the acoustical analysis that there was a high probability that a shot was fired at the president from the grassy Knoll.’ There were also witness reports of suspicious activity in the vicinity of the Knoll, and they found the following: ‘Oswald fired three shots. The third shot he fired killed the president. Scientific acoustical evidence established a high probability that two gunmen had fired Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy 95% are a better probability that there was a shot fired from the grassy knoll.” They concluded that no US agencies were involved, but it could not rule out organized crime or anti Castro groups. So that was a report but then later questions did come out about like this audio analysis they did where they thought they heard a fourth gunshot. We review that that's kind of fishy, but the point is they did not agree with the Warren Commission, did not think the investigation was appropriately done. 

Okay. 

The big reveal from their report also was that the government had been tracking Lee Harvey Oswald and tracking his mail and following his mom prior to the assassination. And again, that's when we learned he'd been interacting with the Cubans and the Russians, but we don't really know. We've already discussed, right? We don't really know if he was spying or if he truly wanted to defect to USSR or Cuba. So then in 1991, Oliver Stone releases his film, JFK and it sparked new conspiracy theories. So in response to that, Congress creates the Assassination Records Review Board. So this is from 1994 to 1998. It was signed in by HW Bush and they just said the majority of Americans do not believe this official story of Lee Harvey Oswald. So they really wanted to restore like government credibility and the goal was really for the government to go back. Look, let's look at all the documents. Let's see if we can release any document that is not like a risk to national security. 

Okay. 

Interestingly, as this is all happening, Secret Service starts destroying records. 

Yeah. 

And all these records disappear. 

Of course. 

What the heck is Secret Service hiding? 

I'm just confused. 

We're going to talk about that when I go into, like who did it? 

Right. 

Yeah. 

So that'll be our very final portion here will be like who had motive and why. But yeah, it's like everybody had motive. 

Right. 

So September 30th, 1998, the Assassination Records Review Board submits its final report. They declassified five million pages of documents. This is like from the CIA, the FBI, the Warren Commission, all those. And they conducted new interviews. They created a deadline for the release of all documents by 2017. And then I guess when Trump, I don't remember this, but you can go online and see all of his tweets. When he took office and like, he's like hyping up the release, like 2017. He's like, ‘it's coming…. the country deserves transparency. I can't wait to release all this information’. And then all of a sudden, in like the 11th hour, he says, ‘you know, there's identifiable national security, law enforcement and foreign affair concerns. And so at the request of the FBI and CIA, we're not going to release everything’.

Oh my God. 

And so they just keep pushing back the date of when everything will be released and they're slowly trickling things out. We think about 95% of the documents have been declassified, but we still have like 5%. 

That doesn't include the stuff that they destroyed. 

Yeah. 

The point is we've had now four different investigations into the assassination of JFK and like we still don't know what happened. 

Yeah. And like none of them are in agreement. 

These findings like are not in agreement. 

It's just wild. 

So those are the official investigations. 

We will wrap this up here with like what was happening in the world at that time and who had motive. And then you guys tell me. 

Cuba. 

It's on there. You guys tell me what you think, okay? 

Okay. 

The USSR is always on there too. 

Yeah. 

So let's start with what was happening in the world because none of us are good history students. I had to really educate myself. But what I learned is that really JFK was a great guy, but he also had a lot of enemies. In 1959, Castro rose to power as the first communist dictator in the Western Hemisphere. Nixon, who was VP at the time, met Castro and he's like, red flags everywhere. This guy's trouble. We’ve got to stop him. And they're very nervous about Castro's ties to Khrushchev in the Soviet Union. So the CIA is working on coming up with a plan to overthrow Castro. And Eisenhower had approved a program in March of 1960 where they were going to use these Cuban exiles and train them as military in Guatemala. So if you're trained by US military, the CIA would support them, but it wouldn't actually be like Americans invading Cuba. Meanwhile, JFK is running for president and part of his platform is like US forces will not intervene in Cuba ever. So JFK gets elected, it's right before his inauguration, and the CIA briefs him on this plan that's already been put into place. 

Okay. 

And JFK didn't like it. 

Yeah, well, JFK's like, I promised the American people we weren't gonna get involved, but now he's kind of in a tough position. 

He's in a rock and a hard place. 

Yeah, so he's like, okay, well, we really have to minimize American involvement. We're gonna disguise our support as much as possible.

Okay. Enter Lee Harvey Oswald. 

Well, we're still two years before that. 

Okay. 

So 1961, the plan is that under the cover of darkness, two separate teams are gonna land in different locations and create confusion in Cuba. But there was a mishap before the invasion. The CIA had painted these old B-26 bombers to disguise American involvement, because again, we don't want anyone to know that we're involved in this. But the bombers failed to take out their target, which was the Cuban airstrip. So this botched attack is publicized, photos of these planes are leaked, and it becomes obvious that the US was involved. So now JFK is humiliated and he cancels the airstrikes that were going to be part of this attack plan. 

So this whole attack, a disaster. 

Right. 

24 hours into fighting, this 1400 person guerrilla team is getting destroyed by the 20,000 Cuban soldiers. 

Holy moly. 

JFK finally decides to send in some unmarked fighter jets, but because of the time zone change, the fighter jets were an hour late. 

Oh, no. 

That's embarrassing. 

So they get shot down by the Cubans and almost all the guerrilla fighters were killed or captured. Eventually, RFK negotiated their release 20 months later in exchange for $53 million in baby food and medicine donated by various companies in the United States. 

Oh, wow. 

And as a result of this whole debacle, Dulles is fired as head of the CIA. And Dulles, remember I told you, ended up being on the Warren Commission after JFK fired him over this. 

Dulles. Wait a second. 

Yep. Dulles Airport. 

Wait, Michael the Uber driver, said something about Dulles. 

Oh, Michael. 

Guys, Michael knew some stuff. 

We were rolling our eyes on Michael. He was 100% correct so far, correct on everything he said. I cannot wait to talk about Abraham Lincoln. 

So that's the Bay of Pigs, 1962, the next year we have the Cuban Missile Crisis. So an American spy plane secretly photographs nuclear missile sites in Cuba. The CIA and US military advised an attack, but Kennedy was worried about a nuclear war. So he negotiates with Khrushchev against his advisors orders and they come to an agreement. The Soviets will dismantle their weapons in Cuba and six months later, the US will dismantle their weapons in Turkey. So this compromise is a success. We avoided war. It's all great. But his advisors, like JFK's advisors, were not in support of any of this. The Pentagon was ready to go to war, but JFK's like, we can't be in Vietnam, in Cuba, in Russia all at the same time. 

Yeah, there's too much going on here. 

So he was really trying to avoid war, but it sounds like it was definitely against the recommendations of the people advising him. So again, a lot of enemies within his administration. In fact, General Lemay who I guess he fought with throughout his presidency, they were like, okay, everybody meet at Andrews Air Force Base to meet the body and he's like, he was in Canada or something. He's like, you know what, I'm good. I'm just gonna fly into National Airport. I don't need to be there for this big ceremony. And then he showed up at the autopsy and he was smoking a cigar during the autopsy. General Lemay, the doctor during the autopsy was like, someone needs to put out that cigar. But everyone's like, yeah, this guy was just celebrating like my enemy, you know, lots of people didn't like him. He also had alienated some Americans with his civil rights position, which is humiliating to look back now and be like, this was only, you know, 60 years ago. Most of the southern governors were upset because he was making them admit African Americans to public universities. His stance on integration civil rights had maybe also made some enemies. That was kind of what was happening in the world. So who had motive? 

Yeah, the 60s. 

The 60s really were was like a wild time. 

I think about it too. 

Every time I think about CIA stories, it was like the secret shit that was happening. 

I don't really know the difference between CIA and FBI. 

So just like FBI, I think about is like, again, federal bureau, right? Like, I feel like they're like the federal crimes, federal issues. I feel like CIA is more international, right? They're doing like intelligence, secret shit. Where does the military part? Like is the military a part of the CIA? 

No, it's all… CIA's top secret CIA. We now know to be responsible for like Watergate. I'm gonna tell you about how they assassinated a bunch of other world leaders without, they just had no government oversight. They were just like, I just picture these spies in these other countries.

Have you been to the Spy Museum? 

Yeah. Wild. 

The Spy Museum is so wild. 

You think that it doesn't happen anymore, but there's still spies everywhere. 

Everywhere. 

So the CIA was born out of, this is Wikipedia - Okay, CIA is more about foreign intelligence gathering and focuses on international matters while the FBI is more like domestic and it upholds like our federal laws and investigates federal crimes. But I think the FBI has more oversight than the CIA. I think the CIA is just like out there doing wild shit and it's like, don't ask, don't tell. 

Crazy to me. 

So, all right, let's talk about the different theories, the different potential motives that groups had. 

Boom, boom, boom. 

Okay. So the first one, and this one I kind of wanted to believe at first. It made the most sense to me, except I can't really explain the coverup. So anyway, the first one is the mob. So JFK had appointed his brother, RFK, as attorney general. 

Oh, nepotism. 

I know. 

That's a Kennedy. 

RFK comes out as attorney general with a strong stance against organized crime. He felt that like organized crime is the number one risk to the US population at this particular time. On top of that, there was a lot of money laundering by the mobs through Cuba. So they had casinos and businesses in Cuba. So the mob is losing money with their businesses in Cuba because of what's going on, right? Because we couldn't go to Cuba. 

Right, right. 

So after the Bay of Pigs disaster, all the businesses in Cuba remained shut down, particularly, like I said, a lot of casinos. The mob had been trying to kind of turn Cuba into like the next Vegas, like make it a tourist destination. So they had been really building up there. And now it's like, they've got all this money invested and they're just losing money. 

Right. 

On top of that, when JFK's older… now this I'm gonna say was difficult to corroborate. I did see a couple of places, a similar story. So one of the stories is that JFK's older brother died. And when he died, JFK, who we know is a bit of a ladies man, right? He started seeing his dead brother's girlfriend. 

Oh my God. 

And his dead brother's girlfriend was allegedly a mobster's daughter. 

Oh my God. 

And eventually they eloped. 

What? 

And then JFK's dad, as you know, was trying to build this like political empire. And he's like, this is not gonna cut it. You know, you're getting this annulled. 

Cut it out. 

Oh my God, so JFK has been divorced. 

So Catholic, you know? So it was annulled. So I will say what makes it, I'd have- 

Wait, are these documents out there? Like this is for sure. 

I think that I read multiple sources saying he was married to a mobster's daughter and they had it annulled. Whether or not it was his brother's girlfriend, I don't know. So allegedly he was married before Jackie. Allegedly he was married before Jackie, but it was annulled…

So it doesn't count. He was not divorced. 

Not in the eyes of the church. 

That's right. 

Yeah. 

Again, JFK's dad is like, I'm trying to build this political empire with my sons. And like, if this gets out, that's not good, right? JFK's a good Catholic boy. So he kind of makes a deal with the mob. Like, if you keep this under wraps, we'll look out for you, you know, when we get higher up in the government. 

When it's time, yeah. 

Well, then they didn't do that, right? Cause now we have RFK and JFK being like, we're taking out the mob, that's our number one threat. 

Yeah, this is all making sense. 

Uh-huh. 

Yeah. 

I can see. 

And that guy, that Ruby guy was a mobster. 

Yeah. 

In fact, the leader before Castro had accumulated $300 million in wealth. He had like three cargo planes full of his like belongings, but he made $300 million via like a symbiotic relationship with the mob. So I think everyone was profiting and then here comes the Kennedy's, right? So I feel like I can 100% buy into this theory. But again, why all the, like the mob did not have the ability to fake the autopsy and- There would have to be some government help. They would have to have connections involved. Secret Service? 

Yeah. 

The CIA?  The FBI? Secret Service? I mean, maybe the mob had like an undercover rat. Secret servicemen. Yeah. 

What do you mean? They couldn't do that. The mob does. I think the things they could. 

But did they have that much control then? I mean, I don't know. I need to hear other theories.

You ever heard about Batman? 

You're so right. 

I don't know what you're talking about. 

Batman. 

Yeah. No, he was trying to take down the mob in Gotham City.  A lot of those guys were mobsters. His parents were killed by mobsters.

Clearly I was not watching enough nerdy TV. 

Hold on. 

But that was in like the time of like 40s, 50s, 60s. 

The mob had a lot of, I think more, I don't know, value than they do today, or maybe more like face time, you know what I mean? Like, the spotlight was on them more than it is today. Like we don't think, we think of the mob as like a 40s, 50s, 60s kind of thing. Where the mob is- Or like the Sopranos, what was that 90s? 

Right, well the mob is still out there. Just nobody talks about it anymore. 

Is it? 

Oh, girl. The mob is out there.  Love me some mobsters, especially the Italian mob. That's who I pledge my allegiance to… and America. 

All right, so we got the mob. And then we have the CIA. So as I mentioned, when Kennedy assumed the presidency in January of 1961, he inherited at a federal agency that had just like spun out of control. They had been just pursuing their own objectives during the Eisenhower administration. 

It's a coup. 

Oh yeah. Investigating coups, inciting rebellions, trying to assassinate foreign leaders, and generally without White House supervision or input. And then we had that 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion I told you about, which the CIA had orchestrated. And it ended up being a disaster and a political liability for Kennedy, so he fired the director, as I told you. So we have the Bay of Pigs debacle in which Kennedy refused to provide air support, which led to some tension between the CIA and JFK. On top of that, we've got Dulles, the director of the CIA, who's been fired. And then JFK was like, this group is out of control. We're cutting their budget by 20%. 

Oh my goodness. 

That's a lot. 

He and RFK thought the CIA knew that the Bay of Pigs was going to fail without military support. But JFK was like, I'm the leader, the buck stops here. Publicly, JFK had to take responsibility. So there's kind of some- Drama. 

Bitterness, yeah. 

And then just generally, there was this idea from the government, from the CIA that- JFK was like weak on foreign policy and just wasn't taking a firm enough stand against communism. So I think there was a lot of bitterness. JFK said he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the wind”. 

He's talking a lot of smack. No wonder he had a target on his head. 

Yeah. RFK  Jr who's running, isn't he running for president? He believes the CIA was involved. He said, “when my uncle was president, he was surrounded by military industrial complex and intelligence apparatus that was constantly trying to get him to go to war in Laos, Vietnam, et cetera. He refused. He said that the job of the American presidency is to keep the nation out of war.”  There was also the Lumumba drama. Eisenhower had ordered the CIA to take out Lumumba. He was the first elected prime minister of Congo. 

Okay. 

Eisenhower said, CIA, take him out. 

Then Kennedy gets elected, because again, Kennedy's like inheriting all these plans that were already in place. So Kennedy gets elected, he's like, release Lumumba. And then Lumumba gets mysteriously killed, and Kennedy didn't even find out for months. He just thinks that this guy's been released and all is well. But the point is like the CIA is not even listening to the president. They're just like doing their own thing. So again, lots of conflict between the CIA and Kennedy. And again, no one's really realizing quite how the CIA, well, it was Dulles who got fired. And then also of note with the CIA theory, if you're thinking like the motive here was that they hated each other, the CIA deputy director, Charles Cabell, whom Kennedy had also fired was the brother of Earl Cabell, who was Dallas' mayor in 1963 when this assassination happened. 

It's kind of giving me that Kennedy came in and just cleared house and pissed off too many people. 

Yeah. 

Like he made too many changes too quickly, which is not what you're supposed to do. 

He also had, Kennedy had, we know many mistresses we're going to talk about Marilyn Monroe later. He was a ladies man. Like on a different episode. But Mary Pinchot Meyer was one of his alleged mistresses. She was married to a CIA official. She was murdered in 1964. 

Oh my God. 

It all just sounds a little conspiracy-y. 

Yeah, sounds like it was cleaned up with his little bow. 

So what do you think about the CIA? 

I'm thinking they did it. I mean, if they're willing to hide stuff from the president, they're willing to kill the president. 

And we know that they were involved in, again, killing other heads of state. 

Yeah. That was just practice. 

Would they kill their own head of state? 

That was just practice. Yeah, target practice. 

Yeah. Okay, and then Richard Nixon, who oversaw the CIA's original plan to take- 

This is the same Nixon that was the president? 

Yeah. Nixon, who oversaw the CIA's original- Nixon ran against Kennedy. In the first round. Nixon was vice president for Eisenhower, runs against Kennedy, Kennedy wins. And I think Nixon beats LBJ.

Oh. 

So he oversaw the CIA's original plan to take back Cuba from Castro when he was Eisenhower's VP. He was in Dallas on the day of the assassination. And if anybody could have planned and concealed a plot as intricate as the Kennedy assassination, it would be the CIA. Again, I told you they'd already helped oust heads of state in Guatemala and Iran. As Kennedy's motorcade was making its way through Dallas, how about this, guys? While the motorcade is making its way through Dallas, a CIA operative in Paris was unbeknownst to most of the higher ups, giving a poisoned pen to someone to pass on to Fidel Castro. So- 

A poisoned pen? 

Yeah. There was an unregulated- Assassination in progress. 

Oh my God. 

…While JFK is being assassinated. You know, maybe this goes back to me being like, I feel like the mob could do it, but how'd they cover it up? The CIA and the mob had been conspiring to get out Castro together. So I guess perhaps there is a link. 

Yeah. 

And so then there's this three tramps theory. 

Tramps? 

This goes into the CIA, if you believe the CIA did it. There were three tramps, which I guess is homeless person. 

Are we referring to women? 

No, it's like homeless. 

Yeah, what's a tramp? It's the 1960s. Aren't the tramps the people who have the- The sticks. 

The sticks? 

Oh my God. Undomiciled is what they call it on the news. 

Okay, a tramp for anyone who was born after the 1960s is a person who travels from place to place on foot in search of work as a vagrant or beggar. 

Oh, a gypsy. 

That might be offensive. 

Gypsies a little bit... 

A vagrant, a vagabond, a homeless person. 

They're not gypsies. 

An undomiciled person. 

Oh. A derelict. 

Let's just call them nomads. A person of no fixed address. 

A bagman, cause I picture them, I think they had the sticks with their belongings in the hand.

Yeah, yeah. Dennis the Menace. 

A trio of men were arrested in the rail yard behind Dealey Plaza immediately after the assassination. 

Okay. 

Photos show them being led through the downtown streets by Dallas police officers, yet there was no record of their arrest. Theorists believe they looked like CIA agents E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Charles Harrison. Side note, Charles Harrison was assassinated a federal judge and was the father of Woody Harrelson. He was a CIA agent. 

What? 

The CIA operatives killed Kennedy and federal agents covered it up. However, in 1992, a Dallas researcher, Mary LaFontaine, searched through Dallas Police Department files and she was able to find these overlooked arrest records from November 22nd. And the three tramps were in fact three tramps, Harold Doyle, Gus Abrams, and John Forrester-Gidney. 

Yeah, anyone can make up names. 

Yeah. 

So what do you guys think about the CIA? 

I think they did it. 

I think the CIA conspired with the mob. 

They have enough power to do it and connections. 

I wouldn't be shocked if they invited the mob to partake because they knew Kennedy had issues with the mob. Also, mobs got some sharpshooters, you know what I mean? I have a feeling it was the CIA leading it and included the mob, et cetera. 

Well, the CIA was gonna let the mob take the fall if they ever got caught. 

Yeah, 100%

100%. I guarantee you the CIA has a whole case against the mob ready to go. 

Yeah. 

Oh, yeah. I think I'm with you guys. 

So CIA is there another mob? 

There's a couple more.  Oh, those are the big ones. They're not as…

So we have, there's some secret service theories because, again, a lot of the secret service were like confiscating documents from the next president. 

I would have a hard time trusting this. 

Yeah, well, so I think there's also, so there's like theories like the Secret Service did it intentionally, and then there's theories like with the Secret Service just incompetent, like that kind of thing. So there were over 10 witnesses who reported seeing a gunman in the window of the sixth floor, but no Secret Service. Like if all these people are like, oh yeah, we saw this gunman before the assassination, but how did all these Secret Service agents whose whole job is to like be alert, didn't see it? And then they talk about how when the shooting happened, like we said, why did they just sit there and get shot again? Why didn't, so I think why didn't JFK and Jackie like duck, but they're saying why didn't a Secret Service agent immediately pounce on him? I would argue that one chased down the car and that was speeding off at 80 miles per hour. So we should give them some credit for that. But like they say they were, but they backed off because JFK told them to back off. 

Does Secret Service automatically change with a change in presidents? Because I'm wondering if there was loyalty to like Eisenhower or like loyalty to like a Republican Party?

No, I don't know. I'd like to believe that Secret Service really are like putting their life on the line.

It was the 60s though. People had different perspectives on life back then. 

And nobody wants a liberal Catholic... 

Now they were saying that the Secret Service at this time under JFK was pretty overworked. So they were averaging about 83 trips a month and 80 overtime hours per pay period. 

Oh my goodness. 

When they were in Texas for this motorcade, they were doing double shifts. 

Oh my God. 

So they were tired. Yeah, but then also they were partying. So they had been out at the clubs till 5 a.m. 

They can do that? 

Before a 7 a.m. show time. No. Well, you're not supposed to. So the question was like, were they just like hung over and slow on their reflexes? 

No? They did on purpose. I think they did on purpose. 

Here's well, here's something else. OK, I also think it wasn't like super obvious that first he got shot in the neck. It was really he's just sitting there. 

Yeah, he kind of like looks around like I was just shot. And then he gets shot again, like, but I guess you would hear it. 

Unless there was a silencer?

Yeah, no, they're saying you could hear the shots. That's why everyone's arguing about this single bullet theory, because they're like, we could hear them. Connelly could hear them. 

Right.

OK. 

Connelly said he heard a bullet, a gunshot before he got shot. 

Okay, but here's a kind of another secret service theory. So, Agent Hickey, there's this photo. I'll show you guys, this might be harder, or you can look it up. Agent Hickey in the back, this is secret service, and he's got an AR-15, okay? Assault rifle. 

Okay. 

So, apparently, there was always an AR-15. on deck? Yeah. So, okay, so everyone's out partying till 5am. They have a 7am showtime. They're overworked. They're hungover. And they're like, man, we can't like, I can't be trusted to be responsible for the AR-15. 

Okay. 

So Agent Hickey was this 40 year old agent who had just started four months prior. He was usually a driver. He had not been out partying the night before. So they think they gave this novice like the role of like, okay. you be in charge of the AR-15, because he's in the back of the car there, right? That's not his usual role. 

Right. 

Multiple witnesses reported seeing Secret Service pull out a rifle. This includes the Senator, the Mayor, the Governor. Secret Service initially said, what are you talking about? We don't have a rifle. And then they came in like, no, you're right. We do always have a rifle. And the rifle is always like kind of locked and loaded.

Okay. 

So multiple witnesses saw, they think like maybe they heard a shot. Like here would be the theory. Lee Harvey Oswald shoots him. And that's like the first gunshot we hear. And then they grab the AR-15 and shoot the present by accidemt. And then it says it says that there's video of him kind of like flying back. So I was thinking like, yeah, but the other theory is like, maybe he lost his balance. This gun went off and that's the one that killed him and that’s why they’re hiding it.  But then you would have to believe that bullet came from the back, which we all agree is not the case. 

No, it doesn't. 

Oh. Yeah, there's no way. 

Yeah, I forgot about that. 

The way the injury was, there's no way it was a back shot. 

You're right. 

But yeah, that's the one. 

I think, well, I think what happened is, if he looks like he was flying back, to me it looked like he was kind of sitting up. It looks like the car behind him, so like the limo and then like the chase. So the chase like guns it so they can get to the president to like get the secret service to him, so maybe like that like the momentum of like…

I think you're right that makes sense 

So also you would see it in the film you would see that yeah

No, I think I think he got yeah, head goes back and then he slumps over. Yeah and the back of his head blows off. 

That doesn't happen on an entry wound. 

No. 

So anyway, it sounds like he could have been grabbing for it, fell back, it went off. That was like the theory. People have reached out to him looking like to get his story and he's not responded to anybody. 

I wouldn't either, legally. 

And then just because we're talking about secret service and more kind of fishy stuff. Secret service Bolden. So Bolden was the first black agent assigned to the White House. JFK had appointed him. And he tried to whistle blow on like the secret service response.  He was sent to jail for accepting a bribe, which many people believe was kind of a trumped up charge. So they think that like he was trying to come out and be like ‘secret service messed up.’ And then everyone was like, hush up and they sent him to jail. 

Wow. 

He also wanted to, he was kind of whistle blowing on… I told you about that Chicago attempt on the 2nd of November that just didn't happen because Kennedy canceled his trip that was set up very much like this, where they had a Patsy and they had the high building and they were gonna shoot him as he came around a corner on the motorcade. And he's like, this was never investigated. Like JFK just got lucky, he canceled this trip, but this should have been investigated. Maybe we could have prevented this. Secret service didn't like that. He goes to jail. So secret service was up to some fishy things. So that's kind of the information about- 

What does secret service report to? Like who are they under federally?

DOJ? 

So I think, I mean, I feel like there was some sloppy work. kind of, but I don't see like a true motive there. 

I think it was CIA still. CIA/mob. 

I'm given, it's giving CIA and the mob. 

Yeah. Okay. We also have Johnson. His only motive would be the fact that apparently JFK had told people he was not gonna keep Johnson on as his VP for his second term. And we do know that when he took over for Kennedy, he pretty much had a complete 180 on his policies. And so again, Lee Harvey Oswald, if you believe him, you could either believe that he was a crazy, you know, socialist who wanted to defect, or you could believe that he was an intelligence agent.

Justice for Lee. 

Yeah.

Okay, then we have the Cuban exiles. So Ricardo ‘Monkey’ Morales. 

Monkey. 

He was a contract CIA worker. He was an anti-Castro militant, an FBI informant and a drug dealer. He did a lot of illegal activities and he got away with them because he would inform to the government.

Okay. 

So he was a sniper instructor in secret Cuban exile camps. because remember they were training those Cuban exiles for the Bay of Pigs? 

Yeah. 

And he told his sons that two days prior to the assassination, his CIA handler sent him to Dallas for an unknown mission. He told his sons, quote, ‘I didn't do it, but I was in Dallas two days before waiting orders. We were the cleaning crew just in case something bad had to be done.’

Oh my god. 

Immediately after the assassination, he was sent back to Miami, never having had to do anything. He did know JFK was coming to Dallas. So he had kind of like, he assumed he had some suspicions when they sent him there that maybe it had to do with JFK, but no one actually gave him like any orders or anything like that. He claimed that he had trained Lee Harvey Oswald in the training camp, but he did not believe that Lee Harvey Oswald could have done this because he was such a poor marksman. 

Oh. 

If you believe this theory, the motivation is that the exiles felt betrayed by Kennedy and his handling of Bay of Pigs. And so they were hoping that if they killed JFK and they kind of like framed Castro for it, that perhaps it would cause the United States to invade Cuba. So there's that. 

Do you guys believe that? 

No, remember we can't believe that there's one man cause there's multiple gunshots. 

Yeah. No, but I'm saying that like this is one man's story. All we have to support this theory is that some man who was about to die told his sons the story. 

Oh, but he wasn’t on his death bed. Well, he said like, ‘I feel like my time…’ they were actually at a shooting range when he told the story. Okay. But he was like, ‘I feel like my time is coming to an end. And so I want to tell you guys this story’. 

Oh, and then he died? 

And then he is now dead. It wasn't like he died the next day, but yes, he eventually died. 

I thought it would have been like a deathbed story. I would believe it more if it was on a deathbed. 

But then I feel like if he had just said it at a random shooting range, doesn't the CIA have eyes everywhere? 

I mean, yeah, we can't trust them at all. 

Yeah. 

Okay, there's also the theory that the Cuban government did it, if you believe this theory then Castro was angered by CIA attempts to assassinate him and was countering with an attack on JFK. Oh, that's fair. But you know what? Most of the places I could find as far as like sources for this was like the National Enquirer. 

Oh. 

There was an article in a CIA funded anti-Castro newspaper, the Trinchera newspaper. People think it's more likely that maybe he had kind of heard rumors and knew that something was gonna happen to JFK and he didn't warn him. Like that's more likely than that he actually implemented this. They did say that when he found out, he was being interviewed for something when they told him JFK had been assassinated. So it's on camera, his response. And he said, ‘this is bad news. Everything is going to change now.’ What I did see on the documentaries was actually like, even though there was so much tension and all this negotiating, like, Khrushchev cried when he found out. 

Whoa. 

The guy from USSR? 

Mm-hmm. 

Okay, I got the last one, guys. Soviet Union. Allegedly, the Soviets recruited Lee Harvey Oswald when he was stationed in Japan. In 1961, this is the rumor. He was assigned to assassinate JFK. Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to stay in the USSR, but he was given a wife and sent back to the US in June of 1962 to complete the mission. Soviet spies claim that between June of 62 and April of 63, the USSR actually changed their mind and they're like, you know what, we don't want to assassinate JFK. But it was too late. There are letters back and forth discussing visas and return to the USSR like he's like my wife and kids need to be there first and then maybe I'll come later.

What was that gonna be after the assassination? What was going on? 

There's another date of November 9th, which was two weeks after his trip to Mexico where he talks about meeting KGB officers while in Mexico. So again, not a lot of information, but it would really tie everything up nicely because the USSR no longer exists, JFK is not here, Lee Harvey Oswald's not here. So that would be like a nice let's just blame the USSR and then everything's tidy and that's it. So that's the other theory. So those are all the theories I found. We're all still, do we all still stand firm on? 

Oh yeah. I'm CIA. 

I'm on CIA. 

My theory is that- Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah, which, what a shame. I think he was organized through the CIA to shoot somebody. I don't think it was to shoot the president cause he looked genuinely shocked when he found out he was. I mean, I'm kind of believing him when he goes, I'm just a Patsy, I'm just a Patsy. I think that was the deal. I think that- But he shot something. I think that he may have…

Well, I don't even know about that because the witnesses who saw J.D. Tippett get shot, some of them were like, what are you talking about? There were two gunmen. People couldn't even identify him in the lineup. That's true. He did shoot a gun apparently unless they faked the paraffin test, the results. You just can't trust anything, no. So I would say, I'm kind of now leaning more towards Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent may have actually been a US asset and he may have been incredibly screwed over by the CIA because they were setting him up to be the patsy for this whole thing 

100% and yeah he did seem genuinely shocked that he was yeah under arrest for killing the president 

Yeah, he looked like oh my gosh I just need to be quiet now because this is way bigger than I thought. 

Yeah, I got to shut up. 

Yeah. And I 100% could get behind now that I'm realizing the mob and the CIA had worked together in the past. They definitely could have done it. But was it the two of them together? 

Yeah. 

And again, yeah, who else could cover all of this up? 

The mob, who do we think is the head mob? 

It's just, it's like Italian mob, Irish mob. I don't know. 

What do you mean? S

o then how do, what do we think about Jack Ruby? 

Which mob was he a part of? Is he Italian? 

Oh, thank you. I have to look into it. So yeah, that's my theory. Do we think Jack Ruby was really just like, I love JFK and I killed him? I'm still kind of, I'm still gonna kind of use my Veronica Mars theory that they were like, who will sacrifice themselves? He doesn't have very long to live, we'll write him a big check. The last thing he did was send a money order to his employees, like send money to his employees. 

Oh. 

Let's off him. He's dying anyway. 

Yeah. 

It's where I stand. 

All right, guys. Well, thanks for joining. What's the poll? 

Yeah, what's our poll? 

JFK Lee Harvey Oswald did it. It was Lee Harvey Oswald and he did it by himself. Not a conspiracy. Or there's something bigger at play. It's definitely a conspiracy. 

Something bigger at play. It's definitely the CIA. 

Yeah. All right. 

I feel like we can only do two. All right. 

Thanks guys. 

See you next week. 

Bye.